(UVA+UVB)&sativa

Phaeton · Aug 31, 2011

My climate does not agree with the growing parameters set in other climates. Nor does my sativa response correlate with hybrid and indica lighting.

This is a sativa ultra violet test grow. It was going to be a sativa/indica side by side, but I already know they like different veg and bud lighting and most UV done on hybrids does not show major change. Most are not documented, but this one is a sativa only and will be compared to grows done with the same clone over the past 3 years.

The clones have begun rooting and the pick of the litter will be transplanted in about 6 days. 2 T8 reptile lights replaced 2 Agro 6400K over the clone tray this morning. The indica is already not as perky as the sativa, hope this doesn't hurt them, but it is not their test.

I started this thread early. The test room stayed busy full time for coming up on a year now, but very few to none get written up. No excuse this time, the thread is ready and waiting.
:kitty:

Phaeton · Sep 1, 2011

This is the sativa clone selected.

These are the bulb spectrums.
Top is the UV bulb, 6 of them.
Second down is the actinic blue.
Third is mostly full spectrum.
Bottom is the red.
A 4000K CMH will be distanced to maintain appropriate heat and overall light levels, custom built reflector for very even light dispersal from 20" to 40".

A single plant uses under 2 square feet of grow space, not very big. The intensity will be about 150 watts per square foot with the lights a minimum of a plant height from the top. And yes, going from 6 inches to 12 inches requires close to 4 times the light to maintain intensity on those top leaves. Bare bulbs would take 8 times as much. Been there, done that.
:kitty:

Phaeton · Sep 5, 2011

It did not take 6 days. The lights above the plant are 48" T8's.
The 2 in the center are UV, the next 2 are actinic blue, and the outside 2 are red. Spectrums are posted above. The side lights are red and UV.

This is a closer shot with the homemade sidelight reflectix reflector.

Lights will be added as it grows, this was transplanted 09-02-11, just 2 days ago, it was put under UV as a clone 3 days before that.

An aquaintance asked if any on this forum might grow outdoors, if so why didn't I just ask them what the UV does and save a lot of time and trouble?

Back during the Viet Nam war mountain grown sativa from Thailand got sent to the USA, nothing I have smoked grown indoors can compare. During the building of the Alyeska Pipeline mountain grown sativa from Alcapulco got sent to the welder's camps, nothing I have smoked grown indoors can compare.

I know what UV and sativa are capable of, I just do not know if I can replicate the correct conditions indoors. If it takes enough UV to cause sunburn in 15 minutes before the plant responds then it is out of reach. If it just needs a proper ratio I may be able to accomplish the task.

Of course I have another 13 weeks to go before I find out if this makes any difference at all, might be the ozone over the mountains doing it for all I know.

stinkyigloo · Sep 5, 2011

Always good to see tests done when u have a solid platform to test against. What were your previous clones yielding? Notice any subtle differences yet? good luck with this, thanks for posting it up

whazzup · Sep 6, 2011

Good luck mate! Interesting test. Question about that UV light: it is predominant UVA isn't it?

Phaeton · Sep 7, 2011

The reptile tubes I am using are 17 watts each, 2 watts UVB, 6 watts UVA, most of the rest is in 2 blue and green spikes.

The lights are supposed to be putting out 25 microwatts/cm2 of UVB at 20" without reflectors. Roughly equivalent to being on the edge of a meadow around the equator, 4 feet into the shade. I have 6 of them that will be running 6" from the plant, each with a reflector. That should put it at almost open sun levels.

My understanding is UVA doesn't do much, stunts growth like blue but not much chemical activity specific to UVA. Some plants have a dramatic chemical activity response to UVB, both increases and decreases in direct proportion to the UVB that cannot be duplicated by other wavelengths. Anecdotal evidence indicates sativa may be one of the plants affected.
:kitty:

Phaeton · Sep 8, 2011

It is a sativa, it got put to bud yesterday, cannot afford to feed UVB to a tree later.
I was resetting the UV surround when I noticed a socket mount at a slight angle from the tube, small fix so I gave it a small twist.
JB Weld takes 24 hours for a full cure so I am a pair of lights short for the second day.
Otherwise, looks good. I changed the distance to the UV, made it further away. I think the plant was caught by surprise the first day, got a little droopy after 9 hours. Lookin' good this morning though, probably won't miss the extra light as it hardens up.
Another picture in a couple days, let it get full UV for awhile first, looks same same right now.

Ai Ze · Sep 8, 2011

i read once in a reptile forum that those (supposed) uva and uvb tubes would only be of help, if they would be backpacked onto reptiles backs

with other words, bc of the very low penetration power of tubes they arent the best choice for animals, analogicaly the same would apply to plants

get some h.i.d. uva and uvb lamps

Phaeton · Sep 9, 2011

Dosage is a bear to maintain, may run through a few plants getting it right. This is a later edit, four plants later, test is still good to go. Doing it top down will save time in the long run, too much UVB kills them quick.

Phaeton · Sep 10, 2011

So far, so good.

this is the side view

this is the top view

In the bottom picture the lights directly behind the plant are no longer UVB lights. I mentioned the plant drooped some the first day under full light? turns out I miscalculated the light levels, the plant was receiving well over 6 times the natural level of open sky UVB. My bad.
Plant recovered nicely after 2 lights were replaced with non UV bulbs and the others set back another 2".
The UVB levels are still 3 times ground level open sky, but I am after mountain grown. The plant gets another 10 days then it goes up the mountain with x8 overdose. No midday pulse this, 12/12 full UV/dark.
:kitty:

benjuanman · Sep 18, 2011

will b following this bro. I've been chasing around the UVB threads on here tonight n its got me intrigued thats for sure, hope u get some good results man. Been contemplating using the Sunpulse bulbs lately as they suppusedly have UV in them and they offer a 10K (not 10K watts lol) for ripening as it has heaps of UVB. Peace

Phaeton · Sep 18, 2011

www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm

UV lights vary, some brands cause more damage at identical wattage levels. This site names names, gives outputs by wavelength and lists examples of natural levels around the globe, ground height to mountaintops.

example: Zilla Desert 50 series starts output at 280nm, plant response starts at 310, animal around 320, anything under 300 is deadly to living matter. Reptisun 10 has the same output at 315 but none under 300, the Zilla's under 300nm emission causes 14 times the tissue damage as Reptisun and needs to be triple the distance from the plant, watt for watt.
Over 15 bulbs have been tested and the results graphed against damage and tissue response for ease of use. Something for everybody, CFL's, HID's, incandescent combo's, all the brand's available to me are there plus those I never heard of.

I bought a ballast and sunpulse bulb because they advertise UV, Not true.
The 10000K is high blue and UVA, not a lot of UVA either. The same results can be had with high frequency blue as UVA, studies have been done commercially. The 450nm HID in my budroom stunts stretch and cuts a week off oil production, same as UVA but much less expensive.
The rest of the sunpulse color temps do not have levels of UV the plant can see, only sensitive detectors know it is there.

High dose UVB studies are more rare and not conclusive. Plants vary in response, some have less chemical activity (cucumbers 63% less), others get more (parsley 138% more).
I am testing because of anecdotal stories from the '70's put out by stoners. I must be too stoned.
:kitty:

yesum · Sep 20, 2011

I hope the 55 watt pl-l lights I use provide enough uvb to do the trick. I suppose they cannot match mountain uv, but they are within 1 inch or so from the plants for 12 hours a day.

UV lights make me kinda nervous, I will not be trying them.

Easygrowing · Sep 20, 2011

very interresting readingstuff..

good Luck with those !

Phaeton · Sep 20, 2011

This is JUST a test.

The amount of UV needed to trigger the documented effects is about the same as the basking Bearded Dragon needs. That would be around 20 watts at twenty inches on two sides for a 2' plant. Not to be stared at, but safe enough to work around.

The test plant is in the SPF50 range, skin damage in ten minutes. Takes less than 5 to water them, with goggles.
The UVB is being added slowly, it is at 4x sun now.
So far not much different than the controls, shorter of course, but otherwise sharper serration lines is about it.

And a related note, I got some new stock Zilla lights in. They've been reformulated and no longer put out 280-290 mw. Visually they look whiter, they killer UVB tubes appeared gray rather than blue or white.
:kitty:

Phaeton · Sep 21, 2011

This is the test budroom I have tested many 400 watt discharge bulbs in. Mostly testing what colors do what at how much intensity. I did not put a lot of thought into using it for the UV testing, plug in the lights and go. Oops.
I always had 800 watts of sidelight feeding the plant, kept hunger from causing inconsistent results, had to test to find that level also.
I replaced all the sidelights with UV and stuck a 400 watt on top. Duh, 800 watts short, UV does not feed the plant. Not near enough energy hitting the plant, it is so hungry it no longer cares what spectrum is out there, it went for the light soon as it got legs.
Pretty sure I caught it in time. Just finished putting in a twin CMH set with 16" reflectix attached directly to the siamesed reflectors.
This will put almost triple the previous feed light on the plant, enough to prevent light deprivation priorities from overcoming the UV effects. I just reread that sentence, sure does sound confident, feels different in person.
I have never found the sweet spot between poor penetration and low light with a single 400, unless it is an 8" plant. Twin 400's is borderline, but this is only a test.

Shinier leaves maybe? it looks just like any other plant in here.

Hmmm...
12 x 30 for UV tubes
6 x 22 for fixtures
1 x 326 for feed light

800 for the test plus time. I've done worse.

Photo's at the halfway point (5 weeks) unless the plant does something besides just sit there.
I adjusted lights while watering, without my goggles, once, the UV is really there, going full bore into the plant, no question. So far the plant doesn't care.

Phaeton · Oct 30, 2011

Been awhile since posting, kept burning the plants. At this time I have a northern lights under 500 microwatts/cm2 for 35 days without damage.
Later today I will take pictures of a budhead, the hairs have a reddish brown center and the trichome layer is denser, I have a control plant in the main budroom for comparison pictures.

My health comes and goes, my attitude seems to come and go with it. I make a point of still doing chores, but am not very chatty when health is down.

This pic is day 18 when the hairs first started the inside color change. This is not the end of cycle color change, the hairs are still growing.

alkalien · Oct 31, 2011

Thx a lot for the comparison! I got a UV A+B LED Lamp lying ready next to my growspace but didnt use it till now. I once tried it but I saw a lot of bleaching under the light so I threw it out again. I now disassembled it to get rid of the lenses and wanted to try it again but was still afraid I would bleach my leafes. Your test shows my I should give it a go!

Phaeton · Nov 5, 2011

Here is day 43 from the main budroom and day 38 from the UVB room. Quite a bit of stunting going on, but the actual count of trichomes is up, just tiny little skinny things on the UV plant.

Then there is that line of reddish brown in the center of the hairs since day 15. I am pinning my hope on altered chemical action going on. Another week should have the answer.

rrog · Nov 5, 2011

Very interested to hear the smoke report

(UVA+UVB)&sativa

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