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Am I overwatering or overfeeding?

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
How long has this problem been going on? One Week
What STRAIN are you growing? Lambsbread
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? 2 months
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 1.5 months - FFOF
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? I'm not sure what mixture they were in when I got them from the dispensary, similar looking to FFOF
How Tall are the plants? LSTing so hard to say what height would be but average canopy height is 13-14" from top of container.
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) LST
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 gallon pots, one plant per pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) %100 FFOF unamended
What brand Nutrient's are you using? Aerated Compost Teas and Bio Bizz nutrients
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? Fed with an ACT two waterings ago and fed with regular nutes again this past watering. Past feeding was 1 tsp topmax, 3 tbs maxicrop fish emulsion, 3 tbs maxicrop seaweed, 1 tsp organic blackstrap molasses, 3 tsp bio bloom all mixed in a gallon and divided evenly between the three plants
How often are you feeding? Usually every other watering but I was trying to hit the plants hard with nutrients because of what I thought was a N deficiency
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? As soon as I made the switch to 12/12, using this chart here, http://www.thctalk.com/gallery/data/571/BioBizz.jpg I'm substituting fish emulsion for bio grow
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) I'm mixing them all together and feeding at same time as per feeding chart listed above
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? Don't know, doesn't matter - organic
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? Haven't tested it yet and want to let pots dry out as I suspect I might be overwatering.
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? never
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? I haven't tested but I will next watering with pH strips
How often are you watering? twice a week
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? fed them three days ago
What size bulb are you using? 400 watt
How old is your bulbs? Don't know, probably on the older side 3 or 4 years rough guess with a growing time of a year when added all together
What is the distance to the canopy? +-13"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) Extremely low, often too low to register on my thermometer
What is the canopy temperature? Usually in around 80-82
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)75/82 - Day/Night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 6" vortec running at 2/3 capacity
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? 6" vortec running at 2/3 capacity for exhaust with a 6" - 25W - 188 CFM booster fan running at 100%
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? intake is a duct pointing into the tent with a small fan underneath intake airflow directing it upwards. There is a small fan clipped onto the frame of the tent blowing air across the canopy.
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? No
Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard (rocky mountains)
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? - Tap water aerated with air stons for at least several hours to dechlorinate
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) don't know
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen) don't konw
Are you using water from a water softener? no, tap water
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? Not that I'm aware of, haven't seen any in the tent.


I realize I could have over fertilized the plants but I was trying to address what I thought was a N deficiency with possibly some lack of P as well. What is odd is that it affected the three different plants at different times. One started just over a week ago, then the other a day or two after that and then finally the third is showing the same signs. The problem has started down low on the plant and is slowly working it's way up. The fan leaves start to yellow and develop brown spots and necrosis before being "eaten" by the plant. As you can tell by the pictures the canopy looks perfect but I don't want this to progress and work it's way up the plants.



Picture of the canopy
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The next three pictures are all from the same plant, the one in the foreground of the canopy picture above. With different signs from different leaves.
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This last picture is a group shot of different leaves pulled off of all three plants. All the leaves are the lowest on the plants but this problem is working it's way up the plant.

Finally, here is a link to my grow diary thread in the organic soil forum if you want to read it to get some more background info. Aside from that if you have any questions then let me know and I'll get back with you as soon as possible. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=216629

Thanks Fellahs.

*EDIT* I didn't mention the thermometer says it's 88 in the picture but that is the hottest it's ever been and rarely get's above 83-84 degrees. Also, it says 16% humidity but that is the lowest the meter will read to. My other gauges just says "low" and the lowest it will register is between 20 and 25% humidity. So I don't know exact humidity other than it being very low.
 
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Everything looks normal but it appears your RH is 16% and temp is 88f you might want to try and raise the RH to around 40% otherwise transpiration is to fast and the plant can't keep up with the rate its losing water vapor and growth will slow down.
 

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
It looks like normal leaf drop, due to lack of light to the lower part of the plant.

100% right, tagged to redreign comment!!!
nothing to worry, i get some also in my garden ..

Thanks everybody for the input I just would have thought that leaf drop would have happened later on into flowering. These pictures were taken yesterday (Day 27) for a strain that supposedly will go 60-70 days.

Everything looks normal but it appears your RH is 16% and temp is 88f you might want to try and raise the RH to around 40% otherwise transpiration is to fast and the plant can't keep up with the rate its losing water vapor and growth will slow down.

RH is actually lower than that, so low that it won't allow for a reading. That's just how it is up here in the mountains. And that was also a temperature spike it's usually never over 84. There isn't anything that I can do in the way of getting it more humid, I don't want to break down and get a humidifier. Temps aren't too bad either, this is as hot as it will ever get outside so tent temperatures will only be going down in a couple of weeks. I'll just keep watering as needed.

Thanks for the input though everybody. I'm glad this is hopefully just a normal occurrence and won't have to worry about it anymore.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
yeah your canopy is fairly dense and as said the plant will 'recycle' the lower leaves that arent getting much light and use the nutrients in them.

as long as you know the pH of you water supply and it's ok, you shouldnt need to worry about pH in organic soil as long as you've made it properly.

VG
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
yeah your canopy is fairly dense and as said the plant will 'recycle' the lower leaves that arent getting much light and use the nutrients in them.

as long as you know the pH of you water supply and it's ok, you shouldnt need to worry about pH in organic soil as long as you've made it properly.

pH of my tap water is right around 7 so I figured I'm alright there, hopefully the dolomite lime in the FFOF will take care of the rest of pH issues.


yeah - makes all the difference to your electricity bill too. 400 is fine for up to 8 sq ft or so and that guys canopy is taking up a lot less than his 3x3 tent so a 400 is plenty imo

400 is what I have so I've just been making do with that. It's a magnetic ballast so I'm able to run a CMH for veg and early/late flowering and run HPS during the middle of flowering like I'm doing. Phase two involves a whole other scenario but that's neither here nor there for a couple of months yet. Thanks for the input.
 
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Stress_test

I'm always here when I'm not someplace else
Veteran
Looks like you have plenty of help...
I agree with everybody else, it's normal drop.

You might reduce it some with a little more light but as long as they are only dropping from the bottom I wouldn't worry none. You might also want to turn and move em around a little too, it will help the light penetrate and hit different angles of those lower branches and leaves.
 

40AmpstoFreedom

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I wouldn't' worry about it.

I do notice you are using a 400w though. Move to a digital balast 600w. It makes all the difference. http://cgi.ebay.com/600-W-MH-HPS-DI...236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item45f9c261d4

You are the last person that should EVER be giving advice in this forum. You have no business in this forum but for asking questions on all the things you yourself do wrong.

NO ONE EVER LISTEN TO THE ABOVE PERSON ON ANYTHING:


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4582186#post4582186
 

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
Well shit balls. I was rearranging all the plants to distribute light to different parts of the plants and I noticed that all of them are sprouting nanners on different buds all over the plant. They seem to be focused on the taller more prominant buds too. I was wondering if these were indeed male flowers and what I should do at this point. What could have cause this problem? There aren't any light leaks that I'm aware of and I've only ever opened up the tent to take pictures 5 minutes before the lights come back on. There is no way the plants could distinguish a 5 minute difference could they? I'm stumped as to what the problem could be because they are all getting them and they were all clones. Could too much seaweed extract cause them to herm out with all the hormones it has and such? In any case I would really appreciate some feedback. Check out the pictures.

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Thanks.
 

Stress_test

I'm always here when I'm not someplace else
Veteran
I don't see any nanners bud...

Those are all female flowers. And rather purdy ones too.
 

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
I don't see any nanners bud...

Those are all female flowers. And rather purdy ones too.

Check this picture out closely though.

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On most of the pictures I posted I caught what I think is the beginnings of male flower clusters to form on the very tips of the buds. They are elongated light green bananas for lack of a better description. I've been searching the forums for information about seaweed extracts and the gibberellic acid and gibberellins that it contains. I haven't found too much information but I have read that it can cause some plants to hermie out if they get too much. I was following the maxicrop dosage of one capful (3 tablespoons) per gallon and that might have been way overkill. I did that last feeding several days ago. If anybody has any more information on this or input I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
 

Stress_test

I'm always here when I'm not someplace else
Veteran
Oh shit!
I see what you mean...

That sucks pard.

If there aren't too many you can try and snip em off and finish the cycle, they'll still make good hash plants.
Or are you figuring to chop and start fresh?
 

headband 707

Plant whisperer
Veteran
I haven't read the whole thread but here is the answer to your question. Over feeding you will see black tips at the end of your leafs and they are black not brown not yellow "black".. this is the sign of over feeding . There is no reason to over feed always lean on the side of underfeeding not over feeding and always make your soil slightly wet before applying the nutes..
Overwater is your biggest problem and this is where you might lose your plant so the signs of overwatering are new growth is dying and the smell of bad egg in the roots. Always try and keep your plants to the dryer side never over water as overwater is somthing you can never come back from. Underwater you might be able to save your plants but not overwatering . I hope that helps peace out Headband707
 

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
Oh shit!
I see what you mean...

That sucks pard.

If there aren't too many you can try and snip em off and finish the cycle, they'll still make good hash plants.
Or are you figuring to chop and start fresh?

I think I'm going to keep on rolling as long as I can and maybe systematically snip them off if I can. I realize that this is a losing battle but who knows? You wouldn't happen to have any experience here would you stress? Since I figured out what the culprit was I can go ahead and let this thread fall to the wayside. If you don't mind still dropping in with some info stress I'll be updating in my grow diary here, -------> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=216629&page=3
 
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