Scrog cage, 250w hps, coco dtw

vman · Mar 23, 2011

Hi all
At first, sorry for my poor English, it's not my native language

Flo setup: 8 plants on the cage, 2,6 x 2,6 feets and 3,18 height (80x80x97 cm), coco soil dtw, cooltubed 250w hps

I made some complete harvests in vertical "scrog" (more like support than real scrog) of Superskunk, White widow, Northern lite and Warlock 3 times (current genetic used, I love it)

I read a lot of posts about horizontal vs vertical and light angle (and almost every thread here. Huge amount of tips).
In theory, vert setup allows more space, but (correct me if I'm wrong) by my own experience, considering number of harvests per year, it's hard to train a productive vertical scrog with a little hps, and a bog with multiple plants is better in vert. My lovely wife is frightened by too many plants, so scrog is a good compromise, and the more yeld I have per harvest (the goal is to make as less as possible harvests for my personal use), the less she's on my back, trying to cure my taste for growing :watchplant:

.

So, I build a cage scrog for my next flowering, but am I on the right way? I need your advices for a possible better set up to maximize yeld in such a little place. the veg time is quite long, and I maybe loose effectiveness over time.

I keep my cage? Going back horizontal with reflector and a classic scrog? U-scrog? Coliseum or stadium setup? Must I put vertical wire with angle like Marlo's setup?

Thanks for your advices

I can remove the "cage" to have access to every plant. There is no wire on the middle of the back to pull the cage from the cupboard without hitting my cooltube. Horizontal scrog is a little "bonus", but not as productive as horizontal light

prowler · Mar 23, 2011

You might want to check this out: Himalaya Gold Cage SCROG 600wx1000wx600w

Too bad he stopped updating...

vman · Mar 24, 2011

Huge cage!

With the lasts strictly vertical scrogs, I had problems with buds who hide each other and with sparse/tiny buds on the middle of the screens (near the trunk).

I never tried vertical sloping scrog. It maybe work better for buds layout. And my biggest problem is that every new thread/technique I read make me questioning about my setup.

Just about scrog, I tried horizontal scrog, horizontal super simple scrog, V and U-scrog, and strictly vertical scrog. This cage is another try, but in fact, I already foreshow some problems at every corner in such a little place (moisture, light exposure etc)...

I thought that with the most lighted available space , better would be the yield, but I'm not still sure of that...

prowler · Mar 24, 2011

Could you share your exhaust & air movement details? First major fault i see is tubed 250w in such a large space. I bet you could rock it without the tube.

Share some more facts about the environmental factors and i'm sure that vertical geeks will give you great tips on this!

Oh and planned veg time? Do you have the possibility to get yourself one of these for veg:

IMHO small caliber HPS lamp will stall your veg growth compared to proper blue lighted bulb. This beast is an awesome vegging light! Fast growth.

vman · Mar 24, 2011

Hey

For the veg, I use 250w MH. 200m² exhaust directly on the top of the cooltube (and another big pc fan at a corner) with a honeywell from below. Intra with some pc fans and 1 or 2 little clip fans for air movement around the cage.

25°C max at 4-5 inches from the lamp (19-20°C at night)

The cooltube is a double security: for buds and my hand (I hitted the lamp one time with the back of my hand and bought a cooltube the day after

), but I can try to remove it (Edit: Done, and added a couple of Easy Rolls, i'll try if my temp is still good enough without cooltube)

vertical wires are at 28cm from the cooltube (35cm from the center) and plants/buds are growing between the lamp and the wire.

(and maybe should I move the HPS to be almost in the middle of the wire?)

My cage theorically allows 1.74m² of surface, but with a sort of "Marlo's scrog", I have 1.64m², maybe used more efficiently (no dead corners)

vman · Mar 25, 2011

I think I will also change my drip system to a tropf blumat system with Head formula, because I had several classical issues with my actual setup (dead timers, blocked drips with salts etc), even if I'm a little bit afraid by stopping the "official" 20-30% drain. It seems to work with other growers, I'll try...
I use organic (canna coco A+B, rhizotonic, cannazym etc), my bottles are almost empty, I must buy new ones, so why not testing another serie, and with mineral, I can keep my soup more than few days. Anyway, this is another story.

Without the tube, I can now easily remove the light and the extract by the top of the box. It allows to gain one more wire on the back. Thank you Prowler to having developed my point of view

Now I wait for the advice from "vertical geeks" before making changes in my scrog setup

The more I think of it, the more oblique wire seems interesting in an octogonal vertical scrog to place buds correctly.

One again, sorry for all the spelling mistakes :/ I know that it's unpleasant to read, especially that in my native language, I like writing correctly ^^'
I don't speak often English, but I understand it very well, and this forum is a treasure of advice, so I prefer to ask badly written questions that to waste time with a wrong setup
So, you can whip me right here because I gave you headache with my messages -> :moon:

prowler · Mar 25, 2011

HEYY!! If you didn't buy those yet get yourself some canna coco A+B! I mean there is nothing wrong with Heads formula - Canna coco A+B are just so clean products and people are having relly good results with that line. I used GHE before but now its only Canna.

Rhizotonic is good sh*t. What comes to enzymes - You can buy what you want. They all work pretty good.

Otherwise your plan looks good! You really don't need that much runoff. If you decide to use blumats i'd suggest you leave the flushing process to yourself. Mix up a flush batch maybe once a week - or once in two weeks and pour it through the medium yourself and leave rest of the watering to blumats. No need to waste any nutrients with blumats...

NOTE: I do not flush my plants in coco.

vman · Mar 26, 2011

Hello

yeah I use Canna Coco serie since maybe 2 or 3 years and I like it, but I'm quickly bored by watering plants (even if my setup is ridiculous) or changing my soup too often due to organic nutrients. But you're right, why changing what I'm used to manage just because I'm lazy

My brand new "cage" is almost finished (I'll post some pics) and I've a question: Did anybody tried double scrog to guide buds during the stretch between wires and have a better angle? (nearly horizontal)

Of course, it depends how the scretch is (my pheno of Warlock have a very manageable stretch), and knowing that the stretch is almost vertical in my setup if I don't guide it.

A large wire on the first scrog (to have access by the back inside the "double scrog", cutting leaves, checking if everything is ok, etc) ant the second one with a tighter wire to place buds correctly.

But this is maybe a bad idea, I never seen it before.

Something like that (curved because it would be like that in my setup, I don't have enough pvc pipes to do it flat ^^'):

vman · Mar 26, 2011

Here is the new cage, definitively more useful and clean.

I can remove each pot, which have 2 screens fixed on it.

I think I will make grow each plant along the support pipe, FIM a lot and arrange each branch, almost like an horizontal scrog (support pipe - trunk - branch/bud (depends when I start flowering) - wire - lamp)
Before, I used to have wire - plant (and a lot of straps ^^) - lamp

prowler · Mar 26, 2011

Good looking sh*t! You most def. think before act. I didn't quite catch that Canna Coco statement of yours. Canna coco != organic, Bio Flores & Bio Vega is. If you have decided to go with GHE micro & bloom just go ahead. They are really good nutrients. The reason why i tried to turn your head is quite simple. Many ppl are extremely satisfied with Canna Coco and when you mix it the first time you can clearly see that it is quality sh*t! But let's continue.

I'm gonna ask Marlo to join this discussion. His 2x400w vertical scrogs are one of the vertical cornerstore topics in here. He is going to fall in love to your craftmanship. And that setup of yours...it is going to kick ass. Trust me. Just remember to let your plants strech for good from the very beginning.

Veg em tall, with raised lamp if you have to - then if you are not satisfied with the length of the iternodes top your side shoots. It's not the same to top a vertical plant as it is to top horizontal. Your side shoots already know that they are nearest to the light so basicall they are your main shoots.

And one should not ever worry about vertical stretch with this kind of setup. There is always room to bend your most uppest tops to level. It's the beauty of the plant since it grows in a shape of a christmass tree. Fat from bottom and skinny from top. It's up to you to decide the highest part of your doughnut and gently push & twist those tops which grow over it - like supercropping.

I'll post a picture of it soon.

Happy saturday evening to you and keep it green!

vman · Mar 27, 2011

Hey

prowler said:
Good looking sh*t! You most def. think before act.

Haha! You know, this is my main fault. Just for laughing, you can see some of assembly plans accumulation

And I spare you many G**gle sketchup projects and other drawings...

At every harvest, I rebuild my box (my wife don't want to hear anymore: "hey! I've got a new idea!", I let you imagine her face when I told her I would build a new vertical setup

Unfortunately, my only constraint is the HPS power so I try to have the perfect little setup, mixing yield, easy to use and less management) but I think it's fine now.

My garage is full of box parts, differents hydro and aero DIY systems, drips systems, a ton of wire netting parts... Maybe I should grow a very stony weed to sleep on my sofa ^^
With hydro and aero setups, i spent too much time to check my soup, refill etc. The room where the box is, is outside my house, and I hate checking my box 3 times per day under the rain or the snow in winter

Marlo · Mar 27, 2011

That is absolutely beautiful! Very nice design.
Good move removing the cooltube from your bulb. Your design should be able to run fine bare bulb.

One of the most important things to consider is how well you manage the stretch and when to switch to flower. Good thing you are working with familiar genetics. Stretchier plants seem to work better for me in vscrog.

If you decide to go with the blumat drippers, make sure you get some House and Garden Drip Clean. Very important for keeping them from getting clogs....especially if you are running nutes in them. I'd stay away from any nutes that produce sludge. I ran GH micro and bloom with blumats and Drip Clean with zero issues.

Good luck. I'll be happy to see what this looks like with some plants in it.

:tiphat:

bobblehead · Mar 27, 2011

you are a sick mofo. Keep up the good work.

vman · Mar 27, 2011

Marlo said:
That is absolutely beautiful! Very nice design.

All the glory returns to you. Thank you for your inspiration. Fortunately, you didn't apply any patent

The most difficult part was to think how to place screens with "double pots" and being able to separate each pot easily (I made the mistake to build scrogs which are difficult to move by the past. I'll never do it again, especially in a vertical setup inside a box ^^).
Now I'm working on a sliding system by the roof, enclosing both extractor and light, I'll post some pics, even if I believe that is only adapted to my installation and will not help a lot of people.

Thank you guys for your advices, I'll continue feeding this thread, maybe for other little players like me with a flashlight in a shoe box

vman · Mar 29, 2011

Hey guys

Here is maybe the ugliest DIY I've ever made, but it works ^^'
It's like a chimney pipe to hide the lamp and to be able to see the world around me after opening my box, as explained above.

vman · Mar 31, 2011

My magnetic ballast (ETI duo 250w) caught fire last night after 6h of use and almost 3 years. I was sleeping and discovered this kind of gift at the morning, realizing I should be dead...
It was properly connected, ventilated, putted in an iron box (it saved my life, the fire was confined in it and didn't spread out, but my roof is black... 1 meter from ballast...)
At the growshop, the vendor says me that he stopped selling ETI ballasts because there is a lot of stories like mine...

So I bought an electronic ballast even if it's more expensive, I've been frightened ^^'
Everytime I buy smth for my box, my wife is sulking but here, she forced me to buy my new ballast

prowler · Mar 31, 2011

:jawdrop:

mantizz007 · Mar 31, 2011

Wow man. I'm happy you and the wife are ok.

vman · Apr 1, 2011

Thanks

(And my 5 month old son...)

Anyway, I don't know if this is a material failure or partially my fault. After few searches, it seems that dusts accumulations inside the ballast increases drastically risks of fire.

So don't forget to take off dusts with a vac' sometimes, especially if you are doing DIY in the same room...

I paid my mania to modify the box every 4 month xD. It's decided! I change strain, I'm done with high effect (jk)

Sorry for the irrelevant with my ballast-fireworks ^^

GoozMan · Apr 1, 2011

Holy shit dude, the gods are smiling down on you! Glad to hear the family is safe and the grow continues, good luck and go buy a lottery ticket.

Scrog cage, 250w hps, coco dtw

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