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By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

C

Carl Carlson

Disclaimer: I have no connection to the fertilizer industry or any of these entities whatsoever, accept as a customer.

This is for people that don't mind buying in bulk and want to spend the least without actually buying 15 different, 5-25 lb. bags to mix up.


Hydro base:

Jack's Professional Hydro 5-12-26
Peters Professional Hydro 5-11-26
order Jack's Hydro, Calcium Nitrate and other individual compounds from: http://www.jrpeterslab.com/spec_chemicals.html

also:
CHEM-GRO HYDROPONIC SPECIAL FORMULA 5-11-26
Verti-Gro 5-10-25 and 6-12-28 Hydroponic Formulas

+

Calcium Nitrate:

Yara Liva
http://www.hydro-gardens.com/fertcomp.htm
http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicS...d=1105&zenid=a14f70e5cccdaf00fbfc7c5410964cd8
http://vertigro.com/products/fertilizers.php


+ Potassium Silicate (for Silicon):

http://www.hydro-gardens.com/fertcomp.htm


edit 10/27/10: If you are on the East Coast - Griffin Greenhouse & Nursery (click for locations) stocks Peters Hydro and Calcium Nitrate. Walk-ins do not have to setup an account in order to buy.


This is not my grow thread, but if you do want to see the Jacks/Calcinit in action, check out Delta9nxs:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3827665&postcount=809


All four of the base mixes above vary slightly. Less P here and there and less Mg. You may also need Epsom salts. To give everyone an idea of how it works in general, this is the mixing instruction sheet for Peters Professional Hydro + Calcium Nitrate + Epsom salts:

34y5pjm.jpg


some prices and two other products:


Maxibloom @ 1 tsp/gal = .083 cents U.S. per gallon

vs

Jacks Pro Hydro + Calcium Nitrate @ EC 2.1 = .016 cents U.S. per gallon (based on 25 pound bag prices)

or

Osmocote Plus controlled release fertilizer @ full strength (27 grams per gallon), the 4.5 lb consumer size for $15.00 U.S. = 75 one gallon containers fertilized for 3-4 months under HID lighting

Or you can get a 50 pound bag of the OC+ for $115 U.S. = .136 cents per each of 840 one gallon containers fertilized for 3-4 months

OC+ product sheet and MSDS (also mixing amounts)

The OC+ can be used along with soil food web principles...

In AUS, Scotts sells this:

Osmocote® Plus Organics plant foods
An application of Osmocote® Plus Organics All Purpose lasts for 6 months. It is best applied at the beginning of spring and can be applied again in autumn.

How Osmocote® Plus Organics works

  • Original Osmocote® controlled release fertililser granules release nutrients when plants need them most for up to 6 months.
  • Added organic matter such as composted manure, blood and bone, seaweed and fish organically enrich the soil and encourage beneficial microbial and earthworm activity.
  • Natural gypsum is a clay breaker that improves the soil and adds calcium.
  • The addition of an excellent wetting agent enhances water absorption into the soil and helps plants take up more nutrients.
Osmocote® Plus Organics All Purpose has
an NPK of 13.4 : 1.5 : 4.9
​
This product is not available in the U.S., but I like the idea so am testing my own version in the form of Espoma Bio-Tone Plus + Kelp Meal + Osmocote Plus as a base fertilizer mix.

late edit - 11/18/10:

An alternative to Osmocote is Nutricote / Dynamite. Dynamite is the retail version and can be found at Lowes. They also make an organic version.

My one complaint about the OC+ is a lack of K during flowering. Our ferts should have more K than N during bloom and the reverse in veg. The red label Dynamite 14-14-14 might be the best of the CRFs / TRFs. Dynamite is time release, while the OC+ is based on temperature in the root zone.
 
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staff11

Nice job Carl.

There is an old grower I know that has always used jacks classic fertilizers (not the hydro, he grows conventionally) and has had nothing but amazing results. Of course he has been growing since the late 60's so I guess that helps.
 
F_T_P!

F_T_P!

Active member
Jack's Pro Hydro w/ calcinit is great stuff. I switched to it from GH 3 part and I get better results with less work and money.

I use potassium silicate as well. I found a store on ebay that sells fulvic acid, amino acids and MKP by the pound in powdered form.

This is a great place with lots of fair priced products to choose from.
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store

I just received my package from them and everything looks high quality. The fulvic and amino acids are going in after my next rez change.
 
C

Carl Carlson

F_T_P! said:
Jack's Pro Hydro w/ calcinit is great stuff. I switched to it from GH 3 part and I get better results with less work and money.

I use potassium silicate as well. I found a store on ebay that sells fulvic acid, amino acids and MKP by the pound in powdered form.

This is a great place with lots of fair priced products to choose from.
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store

I just received my package from them and everything looks high quality. The fulvic and amino acids are going in after my next rez change.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're enjoying success and that's a good link, thanks.

It reminds me to post this one -

http://www.super-grow.biz/
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Here is a pic of a Jack's plus calnit grow three weeks into flower. Not only the cheapest but the best in my opinion...

014.jpg

020.jpg

edit...to be fair there are some shipping costs that raise the cost of Jacks/calnit...my total cost for nutes (not counting water) is a little over 2 cents a gal in CO.
 
G

Guest 18340

Very nice YosemiteSam. I love threads like this, really breaks the mold when it comes to nutrients and shows guys that a lot of $$$ does not have to be spent to achieve outstanding results. K+
And K+ to Carl Carson for the thread start.:ying:
 
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O

orange juice

Member
I just started using pretty much this same line up. You guys that have been using it for a while, do you bother with p/k booster? If so I'm guessing Mono-Potassium Phosphate, what ppm p/k do you prefer from your experience?
 
Y

YosemiteSam

I do not use a PK booster with this...Jacks and calnit which comes out at a pH of 5.2/5.3 for me in RO water and occasionally a little bleach to keep me res/roots nice and sparkly. That is the entirety of what I feed.

With about 3 weeks to go I cut out the calnit. I never go above an EC of 1.5 and I have yet to experience a deficiency with these products.

edit...gotta admit I am considering a little silicon as I think raising my pH a little will not hurt anything. Not totally convinced the silicon will help though...maybe a side by side is in my future.
 
F_T_P!

F_T_P!

Active member
orange juice said:
I just started using pretty much this same line up. You guys that have been using it for a while, do you bother with p/k booster? If so I'm guessing Mono-Potassium Phosphate, what ppm p/k do you prefer from your experience?
Click to expand...

If you do use a booster, MKP is all you need. Use it at 1-2 tsp. per 5 gallons, I think that is about 200 ppm at .5

Jack's hydro will work great alone, but I do believe a little extra P in flowering is never a bad thing.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Carl...thanks for that Hydro Gardens link. I see a grow with weekly tissue analysis coming in my not so distant future.
 
growshopfrank

growshopfrank

Well-known member
Veteran
F_T_P! said:
Jack's Pro Hydro w/ calcinit is great stuff. I switched to it from GH 3 part and I get better results with less work and money.

I use potassium silicate as well. I found a store on ebay that sells fulvic acid, amino acids and MKP by the pound in powdered form.

This is a great place with lots of fair priced products to choose from.
http://stores.ebay.com/The-Organic-Store

I just received my package from them and everything looks high quality. The fulvic and amino acids are going in after my next rez change.
Click to expand...
If you use potassium silicate (great stuff for mold prevention BTY) always add it first and you will find that much less ph down is required to achieve the correct ph. As a rule of thumb always add high ph ingredients first and you will find that you will use much less ph down.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Here we are at 6 weeks...things seem to be staying very healthy.

015.jpg
 
toohighmf

toohighmf

Well-known member
Veteran
Carl thanks for showing people the light. You're a good man for doing it.
Ok back to trimming now. Ciao!
 
epicseeds

epicseeds

Member
so do all of these peters and jacks products contain all 16 micros? what do you use for bennies?

and to get this straight, basically you are using the same NPK formula from veg-bloom? what does the final NPK come out to?

what do you think about the dyna-gro products?

sorry for the loaded questions, but very interested. after months of researching i have settled on dyna-gro, but wondering if this would be a better option.
 
C

Carl Carlson

Check out the Peters' label posted above - 12 macros and micros. Silicon is 13th via the Potassium Silicate.

I have never mixed 'bennies' with the Peters. If you've used them along with other conventional fertilizers in the past, I don't see why it wouldn't work with one of these.

On the NPK ratios, I have thought recently about changing them up based on the "Phosphorous myth" report from AN.

I think most of the users on icmag are going with the same ratio throughout and it's what is given in the mixing instructions. This is what the Peters + Calcinit mixes up to at 2.1 EC: 150N - 48P - 216K - 116Ca - 31Mg - 125S.

My most recent reservoir uses slightly different mixing ratios. Following the instructions posted in #1, use 3/4 the suggested amount of Peters and 1x the Calcinit. Now I cut this down to an EC of 1.0, but at "full strength", the ratios are: 138N - 36P - 162K - 116Ca - 23Mg - 94S. I'll report back if this changes anything over the course of a grow...

I think Dyna-Gro is very good and complete, but take note of a couple of things. It is will be more expensive than any of these options and it uses about 20% ammoniacal nitrogen. Depending on your water source, this form of N is likely to drop the pH in your medium over the course of a grow.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

Carl Carlson said:
Check out the Peters' label posted above - 12 macros and micros. Silicon is 13th via the Potassium Silicate.

I have never mixed 'bennies' with the Peters. If you've used them along with other conventional fertilizers in the past, I don't see why it wouldn't work with one of these.

On the NPK ratios, I have thought recently about changing them up based on the "Phosphorous myth" report from AN.

I think most of the users on icmag are going with the same ratio throughout and it's what is given in the mixing instructions. This is what the Peters + Calcinit mixes up to at 2.1 EC: 150N - 48P - 216K - 116Ca - 31Mg - 125S.

My most recent reservoir uses slightly different mixing ratios. Following the instructions posted in #1, use 3/4 the suggested amount of Peters and 1x the Calcinit. Now I cut this down to an EC of 1.0, but at "full strength", the ratios are: 138N - 36P - 162K - 116Ca - 23Mg - 94S. I'll report back if this changes anything over the course of a grow...

I think Dyna-Gro is very good and complete, but take note of a couple of things. It is will be more expensive than any of these options and it uses about 20% ammoniacal nitrogen. Depending on your water source, this form of N is likely to drop the pH in your medium over the course of a grow.
Click to expand...

Carl...I like the change you made but do you think that is going to be enough Mg?

edit...episeeds...the jack's/peter's/can lacks chloride. I add bleach to provide this essential element because I use RO water. I do not use beneficials. Obviously there have to be so called essentials missing from this formula but my plants do not seem to notice.
 
C

Carl Carlson

Hi YS, Based on the numbers from AN it should be enough, but I'll let you all know if I see any Mg deficiencies... I started using that new mix immediately on a group of plants in coco being hand watered once or twice a day about 2 weeks into bloom.
 
O

overmyhead

Member
YosemiteSam said:
Carl...I like the change you made but do you think that is going to be enough Mg?

edit...episeeds...the jack's/peter's/can lacks chloride. I add bleach to provide this essential element because I use RO water. I do not use beneficials. Obviously there have to be so called essentials missing from this formula but my plants do not seem to notice.
Click to expand...

how much of the jacks / calcnit are you using? Everyone has a different number and I thought I had a bead on it until I noticed some little brown spots on some fan leaves 4 weeks into 12/12. I've been using 3g jacks / peters and 1.5g calcnit - which I think is something I saw in one of your posts on another board. Thanks! PS, I'm in straight bcuzz coco masonry tub beds with blumats no other additives. Also, how much bleach?
 
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