For those doing vertical scrog, how do you do your training?

gardenbug · Oct 16, 2010

The attached pic should make the question clear.
If using a screen and training in vertical, how do you do it?
I've been weaving it most of the time, then pruning any big fan leaves in front of the screen. This tends to give me way too much mass right at the screen. I end up with a few inches of thickness at the screen and no light makes it behind it, fine when I manage to keep all buds on the front side and trim the back side. It isn't too great for airflow though. The buds in the front touching the big mass end up undeveloped on their back side. I'm thinking about moving the plants back and using the screen as more of a way to LST them than scrog them. Also thinking about keeping them behind it until stretch is almost done, then scrogging through it. I'll probably try several ways but wanted to see what others like.

TruthOrLie · Oct 16, 2010

I do like the 'keep behind' pic, but I 'keep in front' of the screen. the plant is in between the light and the support/restraint, tied with twisties

ShroomDr · Oct 16, 2010

TruthOrLie said:
I do like the 'keep behind' pic, but I 'keep in front' of the screen.

I do the exact same.

As the buds turn towards the light, i tie them back to the scrog/trellis. I use bamboo stakes and zip ties to make my trellis, i think marlo uses pipe cleaners.

gardenbug · Oct 18, 2010

I might give that a try as well. Right now I have the screen between the plant and bulb with the plants tied to the backside of the screen to spread them out but still behind it. I'm thinking of doing it the way a flat scrog would be. Keep them behind the screen until towards the end of stretch and then push the bud sites through to the front of the screen.

I guess another question is, should I even be scrogging in vertical when I don't have space limitations? Used to be in a 3ft x 4ft room so it was a requirement, I've got plenty of room now. I could just let them bush out if that would be better.

gardenbug · Oct 19, 2010

I usually weave, but this time it's currently setup for keep behind in veg, through after stretch. Not sure if I will keep it that way though. Running a 600 hps and adding a 400 cmh. Been doing some defoliating as well, it seems to be necessary if they are kept close to the screen.

Relentless · Oct 19, 2010

next time I go vertical Ill prob just train them into 4 -6 main colas, all side by side so they dont get real closet.. i dont like scrogs, too much of a pita for me.

gardenbug · Oct 19, 2010

Using the weave method I end up with a really dense canopy.

Front of canopy has a good wall of buds.

Back of canopy, I trim most of it off.

This is what I'm trying to avoid. The back side of the front canopy buds are under developed because they are touching other leaves/buds and it is so dense they get no light to the back side.

gardenbug · Oct 21, 2010

I flipped one of them around to have the screen behind like you guys mentioned. Tied it back using zip ties. Seems like training will be much less labor intensive this way. Trimming is much harder though. Looks like it should open up the depth of the canopy some and hopefully avoid becoming a dense mass of vegetation.

Marlo · Oct 21, 2010

I use vertical screens made of pvc with and a plastic screen to weave the plants thru. Once the stretch starts I use the screen as more of a way to tie the plants in any direction I need to.

I advise removing alot of the smaller inner growth that won't yeild much, but thats a whole 'nother discussion.

Alot more pics in my albums. The thread in my signature details my last vert scrog

MARLO

gardenbug · Oct 22, 2010

Marlo said:
I use vertical screens made of pvc with and a plastic screen to weave the plants thru. Once the stretch starts I use the screen as more of a way to tie the plants in any direction I need to.

I advise removing alot of the smaller inner growth that won't yeild much, but thats a whole 'nother discussion.

Thanks, exactly the kind of reply I was looking for. That is very similar to how I usually do it. Do you have any trouble with the backside of the buds touching other buds and not developing like I mentioned above? Or are you trimming enough out that it isn't a problem? Any info on what and when you trim would be appreciated as well. I usually trim what I think is a lot, but they still seem to end up overgrown most of the time.

Stoichio · Oct 22, 2010

My thinking is in a normal scrog with say a 9" canopy you can have a bud say 3" wide (including some leaf) and 9" tall. It's taking 9 sq.in. of canopy space. Now in a vertical grow, if you keep everything at the screen, you have a bud 3" wide and 9" tall taking up 27sq.in. of canopy room. That's 3x as much as a normal scrog and about equivalent to the canopy area gain from vertical in the first place. I still think vertical would come out on top, but this would leave something to be desired imo. [This theory has no basis in experience]

I'm [trying to] do exactly what Marlo is doing. Still in stretch for my first Vscrog but I'm hoping to end up with a canopy similar to a normal scrog turned sideways, though I'm limited do to bulb distance, with such a small tent as mine there comes a line between canopy thickness and canopy area where there is a fine balance.

gardenbug · Oct 23, 2010

Stoichio said:
I'm hoping to end up with a canopy similar to a normal scrog turned sideways,

Really I think this would be the ideal setup.

Figure out how to do this without having to tie down every individual branch multiple times? There was some discussion about this on another forum but it never went anywhere. Using a few layers of screen seems like a possibility, but gets hard to get in there to move/trim stuff.

Stoichio · Oct 23, 2010

Simple answer to our problem is a problem for horizontal growers. Grow really big floppy donkey dick colas that can't support there own weight. Doesn't sound so bad, eh? I don't mind big buds. This of course is if your strain selection allows.

I've also been super cropping select colas to either bend them over and also to increase my canopy area down at the bottom, now I have buds shadowing the buckets instead of other buds.

who dat is · Nov 14, 2012

Would rather drag this one back from the dead than start a new thread. I'm wondering how to trim/train plants for a stadium scrog with the trellis mainly being there for support rather than scrogging. Here is a link to my setup now. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=248138 I have some strains that are really bushy without so much vertical as the bush factor (grapefruit in particular). I was wondering if it's better to try and train the back limbs back towards the light or is it better to just write them off and give them the chop? My gut says to give them the chop but I would like to hear others experience. Thanks. :yes:

who dat is · Nov 16, 2012

Bump, would love to hear from somebody who's done it. :yes:

growingcrazy · Nov 16, 2012

I train as much as possible back towards the lamps. Everything on the back side of the screen seems to stretch more due to lack of light. This makes it a bit easier to tuck those back branches infront.

silver hawaiian · Nov 16, 2012

wdi

I think there are probably two schools of thought on this deal, depending upon what your room lends itself to..

On one hand, you could tie the branches apart towards the back or sides.. 3-4 bamboo stakes per pot ought to give you enough training points, against which to pull the branches back/apart as needed..

Or, you could let 'em grow mostly wild, with a trellis net deal across the top/front, to keep 'em from getting too close to the light/floppy..

(Or even build small screens per pot - three stakes and a piece of mesh/wire/fencing/whatever as a grid, .. :good:

)

benzo · Nov 16, 2012

i like this thread!!!!

Desert Hydro · Nov 16, 2012

im running my first vscrog right now. i just tied up my mothers and im gonna give em a go. wish me luck! i may not have done it completely right but it looks badass!!

chameleonsc · Nov 17, 2012

doing a double trellis on my stadium..first trellis as support, second weave...we'll see how it goes...big plants for the numbers, heaving pruning on the lowers...

For those doing vertical scrog, how do you do your training?

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