How to make Tai Haze shorter and bushier ?

Is it possible to make these plants more compact ? They are very tall. I have 2 now that I have bent down parallel to the floor and the tips and branches are growing up. Not a good solution as light is not penetrating the canopy and many fan leaves are dropping although there is still a month to go.
I have three 12" clones of them that I was going to dump but now want to grow out while I wait for seeds to replace ones that died of Wilt.
They have a coconut tree type look. Will they produce side shoots if I cut most off the main central top branch ?

Thanks

What worked well with me growing a pure haze was lst'ing the plant once it had 4 nodes then vegging until the branches all had 3 nodes. Then topping all the branches back down to the first node one week before flower.

I'd be flipping those clones to 12/12,My thia went from 2 feet tall to 8 ft during the stretch wich never seemed to stop,You could try somthing like Bushmaster

The best way is use suppercroping and the like.
With the clones you should have the light as close as possible to stop any strech.
Taking the top will force side growth,not hinder it.
Hope this helps.

bend them over, thai them down, top them multiple times...whatever you do, plan on them doubling or tripling their height when you flip them to 12/12.

got any pics?

JacuzziSplot said:

What worked well with me growing a pure haze was lst'ing the plant once it had 4 nodes then vegging until the branches all had 3 nodes. Then topping all the branches back down to the first node one week before flower.

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igrohydro said:

The best way is use suppercroping and the like.
With the clones you should have the light as close as possible to stop any strech.
Taking the top will force side growth,not hinder it.
Hope this helps.

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these 2 guys r right on the nose with this one. I would'v told u the same thing.

thai just stretches no matter where your lites are its one of the traits never mind the 100+ days of flower,
This thia cross was 2 feet tall when I fliped it Thats about day 7 12/12 as well as training you coud also scrog it,

easiest way to train annoyingly stretching plants in my opinion is a SCROG.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=SCROG

You can top it a few times but you could just stuck it where you want it in the SCROG.


Check it out

Thanks to all- I've decided to dump them . Did two scrogs with chain link fencing. Going to look for something shorter and bushier but
still sativa dominant.

Start with a plan.

Then adjust as needed.

I haven't gotten it down to a science like a few peeps here, but there's a thread by a poster GreenGenes - MrGreenJeans - - summtin like that - he's grown enough to know if it goes in at x inches - it finishes at y inches - and it's not the x side of the equasion your interested in with super stretchy plants or small spaces - it where it finishes - and the only way to know that is trial and error.

At least you know these are stretch prone.

Low Stress Training LST and healthy trimming/topping program can improve yeild - but some plants need a week ot two to recover between trims.

Hopefully the haze you have is what you like, - nothing bums you out like 6 months growing to find another turd.

Hi Oldog, everyone ir right on the money with their answers bro. Okay in reference to the question you asked in the other thread:

oldog said:

SDG: Thanks for all that info. I read up the EWC info in your current
grow and will try that as I just got some to use as a soil ammendment. (Im done with hydro after 2 failures)

Can you give me more info on how to 'pinch' and shorten plants
that you mentioned in your grow failure with the one that turned out to be male. A link ? I have a few young very sativa Tai Hazes that I was going to dump but after killing all my seeds with V. wilt, I will grow them out, but I want to try to make them more bushy and shorter. The plants are now about 12" tall and have a coconut tree look. They are in their first week of 12/12. I'm worried that if I cut the top there won't be enough leaves for it to grow. Will it sprout from the bare trunk ?

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Hey brother I wouldn't give up on hydro bro so many benefits but I feel you if you're already set up on soil. Just remember that healing time will not be the same for any training done in a dirt mix. I noticed a 5 day to 1 week difference in all recovery times compared to hydro.

When you pinch your plant you literally destroying her main vein in the stem. Its best to do this in the 3rd week or so. When you do pinch - do it above a node with branches. What you are doing here is allowing the plant to take up nutrients and redirect it to the branches while stopping the flow to the terminal bud (the top).

When the main stem is healed you will notice the top reaching for the light again, now go ahead and pinch the node above the node you pinched. You've stopped the terminal bud for reaching and you are now redirecting flow to the next branches along with the two below it. Soon you will notice the plant looking lower and denser. Along with multiple tops aside from the main top.

Throughout this process you should not top. It is unnecessary. The plant will also look as if growth is slowing but in reality it is not. The plant simply has so many growing tips that it is redirecting energy equally and gives off the appearance that growth has slowed but it is indeed still on.. It is just going off in all directions instead of straight up.

Here is what she should look like after pinching every node. Notice the scarring at every inter-node. Also remember that because you are causing so much horizontal (side) growth - you will need to tie her branches down al an almost 90 degree angle though 90 degree would be preferred if you can bend that far.


That plant was a boy but look at his scars. He was eventually trained out. He was 3 weeks old here. Defoliation in early veg is a MUST to attain a bush.

With your permission I would love to add more pics and show you what his earlier days were like and a look at his training.

SDG " I would love to add more pics and show you what his earlier days were like and a look at his training. "
Thanks , looking forward to seeing them.
I have dumped the young Thai Hazes , but want to use that technique on a couple of
young Lemon Skunk mothers to be, that are in a cabinet with only 16" height from the 175W light to the ground.

RMH: " Hopefully the haze you have is what you like"
Still waiting to try it- now in week 12 of flowering and they look like they need at least another 3 weeks more.

There's also a great Sativa thread on here about suppressing the root zone on Sativas to reduce stretch.

oldog said:

SDG " I would love to add more pics and show you what his earlier days were like and a look at his training. "
Thanks , looking forward to seeing them.
I have dumped the young Thai Hazes , but want to use that technique on a couple of
young Lemon Skunk mothers to be, that are in a cabinet with only 16" height from the 175W light to the ground.

RMH: " Hopefully the haze you have is what you like"
Still waiting to try it- now in week 12 of flowering and they look like they need at least another 3 weeks more.

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6 Days old from seed

9 Days old from seed

12 Days old from seed

16 Days old from seed

2 weeks and 3 days from seed - First Pinch of the main stem above the first node. This will cause lower branches to accelerate growth while upward growth is stopped momentarily.

20 Days old from seed

3 weeks and 1 day from seed - Defoliating lower branches for more light penetration to lower branches. Notice how the lower branches are reaching for the top. Now I pinched the 4th node here as you can see in the scarring, I also pinched the tips of all the branches. Nutrients can no longer go to the top because I crushed the top. The nutrients can not go to the branch tips because I pinched those too. The pressure thats being caused here will cause the plant to explode in the center. Well see in a couple days.

24 Days from seed - the plant responds by producing heavy foliage just between the areas that were pinched. In this scenario you control the plants direction but you have to stay on top of her since all healing in hydro happens very very quickly. It'll take about a full week to heal and respond in a soil or potting mix medium. I also went ahead and pinched the plant again right at the second node from the top as to once again stop upward growth and redirect all energy to the well establishing side branches.

30 Days from seed - the plant has taken on an umbrella appearance. This plant has never been topped either. The reason she is growing so evenly is because the whole surface are of the plant is acting as a top so with auxin's evenly distributed - all the tops are growing simultaneously. We are trying to not let any one part of the plant regain upward control and if we do find a chute that reaches then we will pinch it to momentarily stop it.

30Days from seed - On this same day we are going to add a new technique - (If you want to flower now go on ahead but I never flower seeds until 2 months) we're going to LST the plant after a complete defoliation. I used some small screws on the sides of the lid for support. I took all out branches and positioned them 90 degrees to the main stem. This will allow max light and cause serious internal branching. Defoliation is a must for this technique.

30 Days from seed - Another shot from the top. A quick note about defoliation. Do not remove the leaf if the neighboring flower is undeveloped. You will just stunt that leaflet. You need to let it grow out till the leaflet has a small accompanying stem. At this point I remove the leaf and allow the new growth the task of the previous leaf.

31 Days from seed - the foliage returns where we left a small developing leaflet.

32 Days from seed - Foliage continues to flourish and notice the branches confirming at the knot and aiming back at the light. This will cause for another LST session later on ahead.

34 Days from seed - throughout this period we haven't had to pinch since the plant is focusing on regeneration rather than upward growth. Here the plant top is reaching again so we'll go ahead and pinch the tip once again. This will redirect the growth energy back out to the branches while momentarily stopping upward growth.

34 Days from seed - right after pinching I'll go ahead and defoliate the center of the plant as to allow more light to fill the plant while the top is in momentary immobility.

36 Days from seed - The plant has filled in and the side branches have now grown out further slowing the plants upward growth since again all the tips have an equal distribution of auxin's causing the plant tops to grow simultaneously. The plant is still growing at an extremely rapid rate but we are controlling the direction of her growth.

39 Days from seed - Here you can really see what you've been up to for 39 Days. There is no plant top because you did not allow any one part of the plant to lead off.

39 Days from seed - top side of the canopy.

39 Days from seed - We're 3 weeks from the flip at 2 months so we need to retrain out branches and gently bring them down 90 degrees to the stem as best we can. Try not tying a knot around the branch. You may stop circulation to the tip and the branch will literally engulf and grow over the knot making it impossible to remove later.

45 Days from seed - the canopy has surpassed the width of the bucket while minimizing upward growth. I guess this can be considered intense training but trust me when I say it is well worth the effort and it'll allow you to get to know what you plants regenerative abilities are like.. That will also lead to you as the grower experiment more on you technique and find a harmonious center.

45 Days from seed - on this same day we snap a picture under the canopy just so that you can get an idea of what you've done. All the defoliation, and LST'ing and pinching gave way to this under canopy jungle! I marked the main stem with a black plus sign for perspective under the canopy.

55 Days from seed - here we are 5 days from the switch and our sides and height are a perfect match. We NEVER topped. I have no particular issue with topping. I just prefer not doing it. Actually scratch that. When you top I find that plants tend to stretch more..

2 months old - Here I decided that it was time to clear some of the lower branches. I should have really done this earlier but I wanted to see how far I could beef those branches.

66 Days from seed - This is a short haze bush that was never topped and notice it is shorter than it is wide. Unfortunately this plant was a male and was executed days after. I did not photog the massacre.


Thats it partner. Thats what I do to keep them short. Again you need to be dedicated to them. This current grow I'm on got away from me and ironically I topped and low and behold she stretches faster than ever. Topping seems to trigger a hormonal reaction. Seem more like a survival instinct to just regenerate and stretch for life lol. Just let me know if you have any questions bro. Peace oldog..

Thanks so much for those awesome pictures! Now I'm going to see if you have any posted pics of those short bushes in flowering....

JacuzziSplot said:

What worked well with me growing a pure haze was lst'ing the plant once it had 4 nodes then vegging until the branches all had 3 nodes. Then topping all the branches back down to the first node one week before flower.

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Thats a very good idea. They still would end up a little tall but 4 main cola's is way easier to deal with than then 25+ I had from each of my last SSH plants from LST.

Check the DEFOLIATION thread. This seems tailor-made for that tec.

Bionic said:

Check the DEFOLIATION thread. This seems tailor-made for that tec.

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Hey Bionic - whats up brother. It all depends. Yes I defoliate a whole lot but the defoliation is is used to assist the main practice in this method which it cracking, twisting and LST'ing. The other defoliation thread is based on just defoliation. I just want oldog to know because I only defoliate when necessary. Not throughout the life of the plant. Foliage is indeed required for fast growth. This tech is geared for stout.

Sum, that is the best tutorial on training I've ever seen and I've been around for awhile. A hell of a lot of work, but man did you do it right. This is how I'm going to do ALL my out door plants from now now on.
I'd really like to try this on a Sativa, to see if you create a much denser canopy this way rather than the long branching which is typical.
Bravo!

lokes said:

Sum, that is the best tutorial on training I've ever seen and I've been around for awhile. A hell of a lot of work, but man did you do it right. This is how I'm going to do ALL my out door plants from now now on.
I'd really like to try this on a Sativa, to see if you create a much denser canopy this way rather than the long branching which is typical.
Bravo!

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Thanks bro. I really wanted it to be clear for the OP or anyone else at that matter. The pics are for examples of what was written over them. Thats where the info is. The only reason I know this shit really works is because I learned it from a cali grower who taught me to fim. He asked I never mention him so I never do but I'm seen this shit done on other plants and the pinching with the training and defoliation just pushes bushes! Bro if you see it done with fimming as well OMG.. Shit hold on I'll get a pic of one branching from a few years back. brb.