Downward Leaf Curl [Pic Heavy]

Confidential · Sep 8, 2010

Bagseed plants were started in red cups filled with Pro Mix.

Aug 27 the curl is starting. Tap water. No nutes. Temps in low 80's. PH unk.

Aug 31
Looking worse. Tap water. No nutes. Temps in low-mid 80's. PH unk.

Sep 2
Looking a little better. Curl still evident, but less than Aug 31.

Sep 3
Starting to curl again. After taking this picture 2-7-7 nutes were added at half strength. Coffee Grounds were applied and mixed in to top 1/2" of soil. Nutes were watered through the coffee grounds with bottled water. PH unknown.

Sep 4
Plants took to the change nicely

On sep 5th plants were moved under a 100w MH and 70W HPS. They began the curl/wilt again. On the 6th they were placed into 6" pots. R Soil is now a commercial organic mix. They were watered with bottled water with a tsp of Unsulphured Blackstrap molasses, and a half dose of 8-4-1 bat guano. Temps are in the upper 80's. The curl has gotten worse.
Today (sep 8)

Today Sep 8 they were moved under 4 x 27 watt 6000k CFLs in an attempt to get temps down. Plants are within a few inches of bulbs.

They have felt the effects of the higher temps, but I'm not convinced that is what's causing this.

Not under/overwatering. Soil is allowed to dry before being saturated with next watering.

I realize that the unknown PH is a red flag. They are due to be watered tomorrow. This will be done with plain water (distilled). Got some ph strips which will be used to test water and runoff. Will report back with those numbers tomorrow.

Thanks for any assistance.

the END · Sep 8, 2010

I had a sprout plant do this exactly recently.
It didn't actually recover until I transplanted it to some healthier soil in a bigger pot, with better drainage, and a Healthy dose of Sunlight.

That's what did it for me, not too specific, but i hope it helps.

Confidential · Sep 8, 2010

the END said:
I had a sprout plant do this exactly recently.
It didn't actually recover until I transplanted it to some healthier soil in a bigger pot, with better drainage, and a Healthy dose of Sunlight.

That's what did it for me, not too specific, but i hope it helps.

Hey, theEND

Thanks for the post. To clarify, After their sept 4th rally, they started wilting again and were repotted in 6" pots, organic soil and perlite (3:1).

Still seem to be going down hill.

I keep wondering why they picked up so much after the bottled water and coffee grounds. The old growth didn't change much, but the new growth exploded.

Tomorrow I may go with what worked on the 4th, adding more coffee grounds and bottled water.

skotty · Sep 8, 2010

your plants are suffocating not eough oxygen in the soil and probably well over watered i had exaxtly the same thing happen in nft where my rockwool cube was constantly wet and she drowned ( begginers mistake)

id transplant them into new pots before they die

hope this helps

peace

Confidential · Sep 8, 2010

skotty said:
your plants are suffocating not eough oxygen in the soil and probably well over watered i had exaxtly the same thing happen in nft where my rockwool cube was constantly wet and she drowned ( begginers mistake)

id transplant them into new pots before they die

hope this helps

peace

Hey, skotty.

Your plant looks like mine minus the yellowing. Dark green color, squished twisty curled leaflets. Hrm.

When they were in beer cups, the cups had no holes in the bottom. I was very careful to water only when the soil was dry.

As I said earlier, they have been repotted into larger 6" pots. During the process I noticed that the roots had shot to the bottom of the beer cups and swirled around, covering the bottom 1/2" or so. They were beginning to get rootbound, so I put em in bigger pots. Perlite has been added for drainage. These pots have holes in the bottom and are in trays. Still no change. This could very well be because they were watered the day before repotting, and once repotted the soil was saturated. The soil hasn't had a chance to dry since. That's what I'm shooting for atm.

It's odd that they picked up so much on 9/4, though given that they had no drainage holes, and were on the verge of being rootbound, though.

I'll definitely keep the moisture levels in check. Plants are due to be watered tomorrow or the following day (once the soil is dry and pots are light). I'll be following up in a day or two.

Thank you for your post.

the gnome · Sep 8, 2010

definitely what skotty said,
all my seedlings get a 50/50 mix of FF OF to perlite
very lite and airy mix, its hard to over water with a mix this lite.

Confidential · Sep 8, 2010

the gnome said:
definitely what skotty said,
all my seedlings get a 50/50 mix of FF OF to perlite
very lite and airy mix, its hard to over water with a mix this lite.

Hi, gnome.

50/50 eh? We will see how the next watering cycle goes, and if they don't improve I will certainly improve the mix.

Anybody want to speculate on this?

It's odd that they picked up so much on 9/4, though given that they had no drainage holes, and were on the verge of being rootbound, though.

Could it be that they just dried out enough to overcome the lack of drainage?

HUGE · Sep 8, 2010

Overwattered is what it looks like to me.

!!! · Sep 8, 2010

You have NO standing water on the bottom of your containers right?

Also why are there nails and metal things in your cups (first few pics)?

darrmann · Sep 8, 2010

feed them get correct ph first and go from there, just because you use bottled water doesnt mean ph is correct.

Confidential · Sep 8, 2010

HUGE said:
Overwattered is what it looks like to me.

Hi, Huge.

I hope it's that simple. We will see.

!!! said:
You have NO standing water on the bottom of your containers right?

Also why are there nails and metal things in your cups (first few pics)?

Hi, !!!.

No standing water whatsoever.

As for the screws, coat hangers...

Initially the seedlings didn't have enough light and stretched. All but the runt (#1) were about 4-5" from the top of the soil to the cotyledons. The screws and hangers were used to wrap the stem around to keep the height in check. As the plant got more leaf sets I was able to bury some of the stem, but mostly it just coiled up like a spring. You can see this in later pictures.

darrmann said:
feed them get correct ph first and go from there, just because you use bottled water doesnt mean ph is correct.

Hi, darrmann.

Check. Very good point.

PH strips will be used to measure water and runoff. Should be tomorrow or the next day.

:thank you:

Confidential · Sep 9, 2010

Soil is not quite ready for water, but here's an update.

They were moved back under the 100W MH and 70W HPS. The CFL room was getting HOT! Some serious ventilation changes are in order very soon.

Any idea what's going on hear with the leaf edge? Nute burn?

Confidential · Sep 9, 2010

Plants were given distilled water PH'ed with vinegar for (-) and tap water for (+).

From Left to Right:
Plain Distilled water | adjusted PH down | readjusted PH up | Runoff

So they were watered with the readjusted PH up (3rd from left), and runoff PH is the farthest right strip.

Will report back tomorrow.

Confidential · Sep 10, 2010

Still looking worse for the wear after the PH adjustment. Glad it's in check now, though.

They'll be in 50/50 soil/perlite soon. Ph will continue to be monitored.

staff11 · Sep 11, 2010

I know you say they aren't overwatered but it looks like a classic case of just that. The yellowing is from lack of Nitorgen because the plant cannot take any of it up without the proper oxygen levels. Beer cups with no drain holes and a heavy mix is VERY easy to overwater, especially when the plants are so small.

Confidential · Sep 11, 2010

staff11 said:
I know you say they aren't overwatered but it looks like a classic case of just that. The yellowing is from lack of Nitorgen because the plant cannot take any of it up without the proper oxygen levels. Beer cups with no drain holes and a heavy mix is VERY easy to overwater, especially when the plants are so small.

Hi staff11,

I think (hope) you are correct.

I thought it would be safe with the beer cups since they were so small and there was so little soil for moisture to get stuck in. The plants seemed to use it up every few days and the pots were light, but perhaps there was still some standing water on the bottom, choking the roots. Good lesson. No more hole-less containers for small plants. Better soil aeration.

All 4 have been transplanted into a near 50/50 mix of soil/perlite.

I do have a question, though. When transplanting, is it always necessary to saturate the new soil with water, or would the plants be ok adjusting to their new home with just the residual moisture that is in the soil to begin with?

In this case they were watered which will likely delay the process of getting better, but in this situation, in the future could they be repotted dry(ish)?

Thanks for your help!

Throwgar · Sep 11, 2010

Overwatering!

You should be able to dig your finger an inch or two into the soil. If it's dry 2 inches down, water it. If it's still moist at all, let it be.

Confidential · Sep 13, 2010

Since the transplant the soil is drying up. Should be ready for water tomorrow or the following day. Plants still look terrible. Will update tomorrow with pictures.

Confidential · Sep 15, 2010

Things are not looking up.

Pots were allowed to dry and were watered yesterday with plain ph'ed water.

Here's what they look like today:

I hope somebody can help me make sense of this.

A couple months ago I was having similar problems in the same box.
The thread can be found here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=182036

I thought it was either a PH or Watering issue. Both were adjusted accordingly with very little change. After the last post where I declared victory things went south again.

Plants were taken outside. After a week of being outside they were fine. Green and perky.

Here are two of them now, about 5 weeks after being put outside:

There was no change in soil, or anything else. Just going from inside to out. They are getting un-ph'ed tap water and miracle grow bloom.

The small one is looking awesome imho.

Outside they have dealt with a few weeks of upper 90* temps. High humidity. Catterpillars chilling on the stems, and other bugs chewing on some fan leaves. They were neemed which took care of the bugs, etc. Everything has been better than expected the whole time.

WTF am I doing wrong inside?

Indoors, temps are in the 80's. Humidity goes from mid 30's-to mid 40's. They are within 6" of the HPS/MH. They have very porous soil (changed about a week ago) which is 50/50 perlite and organic mix.

I am convinced that the problem is not with the soil or water because other plants with different soil and different water are responding exactly the same way as these 4.

From the batch that was taken outside I picked 2 to bring back in. They were put inside 5 days ago. Outdoors they were doing fine. They were inspected for bugs and mold as thoroughly as I could with a jewler's loupe. They were repotted in 50/50 soil/perlite. Given ph'ed water.

And they are both looking like the rest.

Sorry for such a long post, but I'm really trying to nail down exactly what variable is causing these plants to be sad.

BlueberryLovr · Sep 15, 2010

If it really isn't from overwatering and they do better sitting outdoors, consider improving airflow (plenty fresh air) for your indoor setup.

Downward Leaf Curl [Pic Heavy]

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