To disturb or not to disturb?

Trichgnomes · Feb 12, 2010

Hello everyone. I'm hoping to get some consensus or at least discussion on how to go about reusing soil. Not that I want to know how, I know how, there are just some points that I would like to know what others are doing.
For instance, I flower in 7 gallon pots, and after the grow, I remove the root ball, and then add each pot to a kiddie pool. I amend it, wet it, mix it, and then add it to a rubbermaid to sit for a month or two. As of late I have been applying AEM once or twice in between grows.
I am curious as to if others leave the soil alone, i.e. in the pot, while it is in 'limbo' so to speak. I know JacktheGrower uses a bed, and has room to let it sit in between grows. Microbeman has theorized about a critical mass factor. Do others mimic no-till, or mix it up?

Clackamas Coot · Feb 12, 2010

Trichgnomes said:
Hello everyone. I'm hoping to get some consensus or at least discussion on how to go about reusing soil. Not that I want to know how, I know how, there are just some points that I would like to know what others are doing.
For instance, I flower in 7 gallon pots, and after the grow, I remove the root ball, and then add each pot to a kiddie pool. I amend it, wet it, mix it, and then add it to a rubbermaid to sit for a month or two. As of late I have been applying AEM once or twice in between grows.
I am curious as to if others leave the soil alone, i.e. in the pot, while it is in 'limbo' so to speak. I know JacktheGrower uses a bed, and has room to let it sit in between grows. Microbeman has theorized about a critical mass factor. Do others mimic no-till, or mix it up?

Trichgnomes

A fellow I know does something like what you're asking about with a couple of modifications.

He grows in #7 SmartPots and after the harvest he digs down a bit to remove as much of the stalk as possible. Then he hydrates the soil with EM-1 (or AEM - whatever) and let's them sit until the 'new cycle' is finished and repeats the process.

The ones that have been sitting around for 8-10 weeks and have been given regular applications of EM are used for the new cycle. I've seen his plants and they are beautiful indeed.

He does top dress with a seed meal but that's pretty much it.

HTH

CC

P.S. I 'believe' that it was Microbeman that posted a formula for using EM to break up the roots and I think it was something like 2 tsp. per gallon. If I'm incorrect about it coming from Microbeman then I apologize.

Dignan · Feb 12, 2010

One of the much-revered organic growers back at Cannabis Culture (back when few people tried organics indoors) was a fella named wodan. He has a method where he does this:

Mixes up a big batch of soil for the entire upcoming grow. Seedlings go into the basic mix in beer cups (or similar).

Beer cups are used then to "reserve a space/hole" in the 1-gallon (or whatever size he would veg the plants in, I can't recall). So he would set up the soil in the veg containers long before the beer cups were transplanted into them. Apply a tea and allow them to sit and cook, undisturbed.

Same for the big containers he'd run in flowering... he'd set those up, with holes made using the veg containers and the flowering mix would also get to sit for 6-10 weeks while the plants vegged.

Thus, at each transplant, no new soil was being turned/cultivated. The rootball would just fit perfectly into the hole he had created in the next size of pot.

Of course, he had to water the sitting/cooking soil the entire time to keep them moist. He must have had a lot of space to work with.

Peace-
Dig

secondtry · Feb 12, 2010

Hey trichgnome,

It sounds like your media is being converted by at least the yeast and LAB as both are so-called zymogenic organisms and can effect media/soil as you describe AFAIK. The idea of zymogenic soil is not from Dr. Higa but he does write about it.

Why do you pull the root-ball out? Have you considered leaveing it be and allowing microbes to break it down?

Here is an excerpt from a pretty good white paper about EM, etc. I think the definitions are taken from Dr. Higa (?), I don't like the use of the term "synthetic soil", but I figured this was worth posting in case you or others have not yet seen it. I am not claiming is this 100% correct, but it is what it is:

"SOIL AND SUSTAINABILITY: Effective Microorganisms as Regenerative Systems in Earth Healing"
Dan Woodward BA(Hons), MSc (in progress). Brighton, March 2003

(I attached the paper to this post)

---------------------------------

A zymogenic soil has the following characteristics, pleasant fermentative odors especially after tillage, favorable soil physical properties - increased aggregate stability, permeability, aeration and decreased resistance to tillage, large amounts of inorganic nutrients, amino acids, carbohydrates, vitamins and other bioactive substances which can directly or indirectly enhance the growth, yield and quality of crops, low occupancy of the hostile Fusarium fungi, and low production of greenhouse gases.

A synthetic soil is one that has a significant population of microorganisms able to fix atmospheric nitrogen and carbon dioxide into complex molecules such as amino acids, proteins and carbohydrates, with photosynthetic bacteria which perform incomplete photosynthesis anaerobically, and both green algae and blue-green algae which function aerobically. Such a soil is naturally disease suppressive therefore minimising the use of expensive and destructive pesticides and fungicides.

----------------------------------

PFD (right-click > open in new tab or new window)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=44681&d=1265913134

HTH

Trichgnomes · Feb 12, 2010

So as far as adding amendments after plants are harvested, how does one accomplish this without disturbing the soil?

Why do you pull the root-ball out? Have you considered leaveing it be and allowing microbes to break it down?

Honestly, just because some folks on here recommended it (BurnOne, maybe). But I will definitely try it next round.

mad librettist · Feb 13, 2010

I leave the root ball, push in or bury a bit of bokashi, top dress with fresh castings (cocoons, worms and all), kelp meal, and azomite, attach a plant nanny, water with EM, and forget about it for a month and a half or so.

In my current grow I am using soil that veged another plant, and some fresh soil in another container. The "re-used" (really stupid word to describe this practice - loaded with warped epectations indicative of an out of control consumer culture) soil is AFAICT better than the fresh stuff, despite having lower volume (home made containers)

basically my answer is that worms turn my soil so i don't need to.

Trichgnomes · Feb 13, 2010

mad librettist said:
The "re-used" (really stupid word to describe this practice - loaded with warped epectations indicative of an out of control consumer culture) soil is AFAICT better than the fresh stuff, despite having lower volume (home made containers)

I totally agree about "reuse" being a poor word choice. Got some suggestions? Mature, biologically active soil? And I too find it to be better than the "fresh" stuff (also poor word choice), despite turning, so next time it should be even better.

mad librettist said:
basically my answer is that worms turn my soil so i don't need to.

That's basically the answer that I wanted to hear.

DARC MIND · Feb 13, 2010

heres what i do
first i add the soil, roots and all and lightly push down to get every thing even

from here i add hand fulls or less of my minerals, meals and what ever i think may be needed.
then moisten with ACT & add compost/ewc and some organic matter (worm food)

i cultivate maybe the top 3-4inch of soil, to help work in the amendments and spread the compost and organic matter evenly. the soil then sits for 2 weeks or longer(months). letting the worms and microbes do ther thing.

and if i dont need the soil by then, i top mulch again with compost and plant certain seeds

usually alfalfa,wheat grass, buckwheat and chamomile..once they get a desent size i chop up and feed them back to the soil

once done, the soil pretty much feeds the plants with some help from me. foliar, top mulch and some drenches (mostly ACT and FPT's) :biggrin:

shallrelicme · Feb 13, 2010

DARC MIND said:
and if i dont need the soil by then, i top mulch again with compost and plant certain seeds

usually alfalfa,wheat grass, buckwheat and chamomile..once they get a desent size i chop up and feed them back to the soil

If you don't mind me asking, why this specific combination of catch crops? Is there a combination of different plants that can create a soil best suited for cannabis?

DARC MIND · Feb 13, 2010

shallrelicme said:
If you don't mind me asking, why this specific combination of catch crops? Is there a combination of different plants that can create a soil best suited for cannabis?

Well most are known as green/cover crops
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/covercrop.html
they all help build better soil and cycle nutrients

also by keeping soil intact and having live plants between grows; is a great way to keep my microbe life up and running.
The grasses should help culture and keep my beneficial root fungi alive and alfalfa should encourage N fixing bacteria to reside in my media as well. All wheatgrass, chamomile, buckwheat etc etc are also very nutritional.

cannabis to me is a weed and ive seen this stuff grow with ease in chem drenched soils and even between cracks.
the idea to using beneficial crops is to increase soil structer and cycling of nutrients, while keeping my micro life running at full speed.
this way i can culture or keep alive the microbes who helped grow my previous crops.
culturing beneficial cannabis microbes :biggrin:

xebeche · Mar 21, 2010

On my last round, I did a side by side comparison of four types of soil. One was "new" soil (amended Sunshine Mix) with a variety of seed meals. The second was the same "new" soil without the seed meals. The third was the same soil as number one with the exception that it had been used for a flower cycle. The forth was the same as the third with the exception that I added a topdressing of the same seed meal mix. Obviously, one and two had no root ball as they were "new" soil. Three and four were planted off center leaving about an inch of the stalk from the previous flowered plant. All four were vegged in the same manner and appeared, for the most part, to be identical. #7 smartpots were used for containing all four. I noticed that two (no seed meals) did the worse. Number one did the second worse. It was difficult to see a difference between three and four, but the level of growth (especially while they were "pushing" roots) far surpassed the growth observed in one and two. I tried this "experiment" (if you can call n=1 an experiment) based on a theory that the new transplant would either graft or at a minimum take advantage of the root system from the previous plantings. I would conclude that reusing soil in this fashion at least warrants another attempt.

Hope my observation is helpful.

staff11 · Apr 3, 2010

Dignan said:
One of the much-revered organic growers back at Cannabis Culture (back when few people tried organics indoors) was a fella named wodan. He has a method where he does this:

Mixes up a big batch of soil for the entire upcoming grow. Seedlings go into the basic mix in beer cups (or similar).

Beer cups are used then to "reserve a space/hole" in the 1-gallon (or whatever size he would veg the plants in, I can't recall). So he would set up the soil in the veg containers long before the beer cups were transplanted into them. Apply a tea and allow them to sit and cook, undisturbed.

Same for the big containers he'd run in flowering... he'd set those up, with holes made using the veg containers and the flowering mix would also get to sit for 6-10 weeks while the plants vegged.

Thus, at each transplant, no new soil was being turned/cultivated. The rootball would just fit perfectly into the hole he had created in the next size of pot.

Of course, he had to water the sitting/cooking soil the entire time to keep them moist. He must have had a lot of space to work with.

Peace-
Dig

This is sort of what I do when I up can. I set my smaller pots in the new container and fill with the mix, water and let it sit. Transplanting has never really been easier for me.

fishwater · Apr 4, 2010

I beleive in turning the soil just one time, between uses. Gets a little oxygen and helps keep it loosened up a bit.

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To disturb or not to disturb?

Trichgnomes

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Dignan

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secondtry

Trichgnomes

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mad librettist

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DARC MIND

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