What Male to use in a cross?

groady-ho · Nov 17, 2009

WTF are you talking about..they are his seeds and he can do what he wants, period..
he was not asking for amnyone's opinion other than what male strain to use..
he didn't offer any out, it was more likely an experiment.. thats my friend is how discoveries are made through experimentation..
if he does get hermies and bad plants he will suck it up, learn and try again..
i am done with this BS of an argument, i really don't think you know anymore than the rest of us, you are just a blow-hard who thinks he knows something..
peace-out

Chauncy · Nov 17, 2009

oops. ^^^ are you talking to me?

groady-ho · Nov 17, 2009

sorry Chauncy i was responding to his remark to me not your staement..\
peace

nvisionary said:
You are not going to find even ONE stabilized True F1 Hybrid that has been engaged in a long-term breeding program. So you wont need to bother with chopping your leg off for any.

No..its not his RIGHT to destroy the potential of the next generation of seeds. Do you use or buy things that someone has pissed on first? Im sure you wouldnt appreciate growing his seeds out, spending months to discover they are all hermaphroditic, or weak,low yielding,slow growing, or smell like donkey shit.

If those are the kind of seeds you think are good, get some from him and use them all up.

groady-ho · Nov 17, 2009

hey nvisionary,
sorry, for coming acroos kinda brash..sfter 10yrs. of living with MS i learned not to judge someone and gained the attitude of live and let live..my apolgies, we have a diff. of opinion and i was wrong in my reaction..i usually stay out of crap like this but i kinda felt for the guy, he was just asking a question..
stay safe and have a good one..
peace G

nvisionary · Nov 17, 2009

Chauncy, in all honesty I cant really deny what youve been saying. I have not personally seen hundreds or thousands of progeny in a progeny test from ANY of the seed producers. Ive never seen a thread clearly showing seedline improvement that went on for years..Shit, most of the speed hacks wont even DISCUSS plant breeding.lol...THEY STAY out! haha. Its even harder to get the word out when the hosting website is LITERALLY DRIVEN BY THE EROSION OF DRUG CANNABIS. Its a monster.
You are probably not far off from the truth, but I am willing to cut ANYONE slack that TRIES. These folks that think seeds are for fun and none of anyone elses business are going to have me teaching.... as I see fit.

SOTF420 · Nov 17, 2009

Cannabis bred itself in the wild for tens of thousands of years without some guy painting pistils with paintbrushes. What we have today though, is a direct result of human intervention. All of these amazing hybrids came by way of random crosses and then finding a keeper from the resulting seeds. With outcrossing of strains you pick up many benefits like hybrid vigor and expression of dormant traits that many times are not expressed in the single genetic line itself. Same with dog & cat breeds, the pure ones have many genetic weaknesses and are prone to sickness & defects while the "hybrid" animals go on to become new breeds in themselves better than the original parents with a greater genetic diversity. Same goes for people, I have seen black & white mixed people with amazing skin, hair, & muscle, blue eyes, blonde hair, big round butt, caramel skin, etc. All traits that would not be expressed normally from parents of the same genetic background. Do you think they planned the breeding of Beyonce? hahaha Just a thought. :joint:

URUK · Nov 17, 2009

Chimera also failed to mention EPIGENETICS - Simply stated.... Marijuana breed in your environment can actualy acclimate genetically in subtle ways that can make subsequent generations BETTER.

only if it is grown in the same/sim set up that it was`bred, otherwise it will revert back to its true state the genes do not change forever or can you prove me wrong ?

Think about this shit seriously for a minute... the only real difference between Chimera and Rezdog is that one dude bid on his own shit but both offer the same genetic junk. Hell, at least Rezdog is at least trying to do stabilized work with his IBL projects. That is more for preservation than anything Chimera has ever done in his long and snobby career.

thats not preservation thats bottlenecking..

I think Chimera and Mr Hill could comply. I think they could get on board. They can sell finished cannabis like many others do, which does not directly erode the genepool.

I quite agree at least these 2 "breeders" stick their necks out to be shot at, where's the rest of you ?

chefboy6969 · Nov 17, 2009

What Male to use in a cross?

Hey everyone.I am planning on doing a seed crop my next run..I want everyone's opinion on what male to use in my crosses..I am looking to use a nice sativa hybrid as my male in the cross and mostly indica's as my females..
The males i will have at my disposal are: NHS(NL5/Haze x Skunk), Original Haze x Skunk #1 (samskunkmans), Casey Jones, Satori, SSH f2, Sage f2, Mexican Sativa x F-13,
The females will be OG kush SFV x Abusive- krypto, Chemdog-Rez, Blockhead, Island Sweet skunk, NHS (NL5/Haze x Skunk), C-99, Geisha, NL (Dr Atomic)

Thanks for your help

peace
Chefboy

ps I am leaning towards either some OH x SK#1 pollen or a hazey pheno of NHS

blizz · Nov 17, 2009

my votes for the sage

mean mr.mustard · Nov 17, 2009

Do you have more than one plant of any strain or are they going to be single plant pollinated by single male plant types of a cross?

Celticman · Nov 17, 2009

My mention of epigenetics was only meant to offset this plain lie

Not to mention, there is no statistical probability of finding anything better than what is already in his stable, and ZERO probability of making a genetic improvement.

The fact is- there is a GREAT chance he will find something better than what is in is stable now. Due to a variety of factors (not limited to number of seeds popped- epigenetices- and just the new way the genes line up in the progeny) if he pops enough beans he will find ALOT of quality plants- provided the mom and pops are both quality.

Seed sellers do all they can to discourage people from finding out the simple truth- making quality seeds isn't hard. You may have to test a couple of sets of parents but if you have 2 quality plants- your offspring will most likely be nice at worst. Hot like fire at best.
:woohoo:

BudBo · Nov 17, 2009

The males i will have at my disposal are: NHS(NL5/Haze x Skunk), Original Haze x Skunk #1 (samskunkmans), Casey Jones, Satori, SSH f2, Sage f2, Mexican Sativa x F-13,
The females will be OG kush SFV x Abusive- krypto, Chemdog-Rez, Blockhead, Island Sweet skunk, NHS (NL5/Haze x Skunk), C-99, Geisha, NL (Dr Atomic)

Depending if ur tryin to make something stable or jus tryin to find alot of phenos u have alot to choose from....if u let us kno wat ur lookin to make everyone could probly help more

From ur selection it'd b hard to find sumthing bad in ther but lookin at all of them ther probly gonna b a wide varied polyhybrid wit alot of phenos

If i was u my crosses would go in this order

(O Haze x Skunk #1) x Chemdog

SSH f2's x Nl

SSH f2s x Chemdog

Sage f2s x Nl

Mexican Sativa f13 x Nl

(Ohaze x SKunk #1) x Blockhead

you really have so much to choose from i'd take a look at wat males n females u get n see wich are the best u think for crossing n then look at ur list u'v got n do em

If i was doin crosses n i only found a really weak lookin male then i'd use him mayb for extra seeds but i'd try n find a stand out male n dust a few females

Chauncy · Nov 17, 2009

nvisionary said:
Chauncy, in all honesty I cant really deny what youve been saying. I have not personally seen hundreds or thousands of progeny in a progeny test from ANY of the seed producers. Ive never seen a thread clearly showing seedline improvement that went on for years..Shit, most of the speed hacks wont even DISCUSS plant breeding.lol...THEY STAY out! haha. Its even harder to get the word out when the hosting website is LITERALLY DRIVEN BY THE EROSION OF DRUG CANNABIS. Its a monster.
You are probably not far off from the truth, but I am willing to cut ANYONE slack that TRIES. These folks that think seeds are for fun and none of anyone elses business are going to have me teaching.... as I see fit.

We seem to be in complete agreement. The thing is that Chimera (seems like I'm picking on him but he came in and contradicted himself), isn't doing any of this and is simply contributing to the destruction of the genepool. I don't know of anybody who is truly preserving what is soon to be lost, ie., un hybridized landrace genetics that can be improved on with proper breeding and made commercially available to the public like properly bred plants that are next to free in comparison to the crap on sale now. Granted, I happen to like some of that crap.

SOTF420 said:
Cannabis bred itself in the wild for tens of thousands of years without some guy painting pistils with paintbrushes. What we have today though, it a direct result of human intervention. All of these amazing hybrids came by way of random crosses and then finding a keeper from the resulting seeds. With outcrossing of strains you pick up many benefits like hybrid vigor and expression of dormant traits that many times are not expressed in the single genetic line itself. Same with dog & cat breeds, the pure ones have many genetic weaknesses and are prone to sickness & defects while the "hybrid" animals go on to become new breeds in themselves better than the original parents with a greater genetic diversity. Same goes for people, I have seen black & white mixed people with amazing skin, hair, & muscle, blue eyes, blonde hair, big round butt, caramel skin, etc. All traits that would not be expressed normally from parents of the same genetic background. Do you think they planned the breeding of Beyonce? hahaha Just a thought.

Sorry, but you are plain wrong. We are actually losing valuable genes and there is no way to ever get them back again once they are gone. When you mix something up so much and you have nothing pure left... just think about it....

URUK said:
thats not preservation thats bottlenecking..

True, poor choice of words on my part but don't you see the difference that I'm making? Rez is trying to offer something that has some work done to it so that you can at least sorta know what you are going to get, something far more uniform than Chimmy can offer...

I quite agree at least these 2 "breeders" stick their necks out to be shot at, where's the rest of you ?

Everybody who grows is sticking their neck out. Tom is a nice guy but Chi is a snob with a diploma who looks like a kettle and screams foul at pots. Get it yet?

mean mr.mustard · Nov 17, 2009

Chimera said:
You are incorrect Vorsprung to say that there is as good as a chance as any in finding a keeper, and in your assertion that no damage will be done.

You are incorrect to say that there is no chance in finding a keeper, and in your insinuation that damage will be done. I don't believe anybody claimed they were selling these seeds to the public at large. If the OP makes a couple crosses and grows them out while keeping his original stable, he has a good chance of finding something better... where's the damage in that? He still would have all of the original plants and it is possible that he wanted to make a cross for HIMSELF.... yeah, I know it may be a new viewpoint for you but a lot of people don't get all hot in the biscuit to make money off of their seeds. Some keep theirs to themselves... it happens.

Chimera said:
The random pollination seeds he makes will become part of the global cannabis genepool. ALL improperly bred seeds have the potential to damage the future of Cannabis, in fact they do- potentially valuble alleles are lost with every unplanned mating.

It seems you know exactly what he was going to do with these seeds. That kind of makes me wonder about you... not to mention the entire last part of that statement was false.

Chimera said:
They surely will not make it into my garden, but they may make it into someone else's, and so on down the line. If you have been paying attention for the last 15 years as I have, you would surely see how random hack jobs become incorporated to known "rated" seedlots that end up on the market, and thus make a significant impact on the global cannabis genepool. I could give you a list as long as any seed catalog available on the internet.

I, for one, am standing by for that list.

Chimera said:
A single rated, bottlenecked hackjob has the potential (as it has in actuality, repeadtedly) become part of the global cannabis genepool- incorporated by stoners fucking plants together in closets for profit.

Is this the same global genepool that you use? I suppose I could call you a hack now, right?

Chimera said:
With every unplanned mating, genetics are lost.

This is pure unadulterated bullshit. Landraces are not selectively bred on an intricate scale by planning and recordkeeping... rather the wind puts pollen on the pistils. Yet, somehow, Morroco still has amazing hashish.

Chimera said:
Not to mention, there is no statistical probability of finding anything better than what is already in his stable, and ZERO probability of making a genetic improvement.

I am convinced you are simply blind with rage and won't even try to point out how your blanket statement makes you look.

Chimera said:
The population sizes alone dictate that he has no significant chance of finding a new elite specimen. What he has as mother plants already (each of them in and of themselves, the results of improper and bottle-necked breeding schemes) are at their end result in terms of genetic improvement, and that potential is diminished with every un-planned hackjob mating as potentially beneficial alleles and combinations thereof are looked over or lost without proper selection.

If your only argument to there being no chance of finding a keeper is population sizes, then I can't even consider you knowledgable on the subject... however I am sure you are aware that one selected individual phenotype of a strain can possibly breed true for desired traits. While I respect what you've done for cannabis, I must say that your tone is seemingly magnanimous while your disgust for growers making their own seed is overly apparent... not such a hot mix.

It is possible for chef to cross some strains, find a keeper, and keep his seeds away from your precious pool.... very possible. Now take a toke and realize this and your anxiety may subside a little.

chefboy6969 · Nov 17, 2009

mean mr.mustard said:
Do you have more than one plant of any strain or are they going to be single plant pollinated by single male plant types of a cross?

I will be pollinating just using one male..that's why i want to see what male everyone chooses..I will be using as many females as I can...
I will be doing pollination of the whole plant also..strictly as seed run nothing else..
I will start 3-4 seeds of each variety and keep all females and cull all males except for one..That 1 male will pollinate my whole crop..

Thanks
Chefboy

whodair · Nov 17, 2009

I selected my males based upon structure. each of these 2 males i grew from seed had 5 to 7 tops. so these were not topped. they just grew a very bushy formation.

nvisionary · Nov 17, 2009

lets explore Rezdogs breeding facility and large populations.

got any links?

Rez, (if youre not too busy) you are welcome to add your personal insights on plant breeding any time.

mustard? you dont know what youre even talking about. Please explain how you retain all the genes from 2 populations when you use 1 plant from each.

And this? please explain, if you could.

mean mr mustard

to Chimera)"however I am sure you are aware that one selected individual phenotype of a strain can possibly breed true for desired traits."

Really. I would like you to show how this is done.

whodair · Nov 17, 2009

the male on the right i chose not to work with. it had a single stalk, and flowered very rapidly. i wanted my female to really shine through. i used the pollen on the mom and on his sisters.

the strains are old school neville seed bank genetics. the results are all amazing and im pretty proud of my experiment.

should i say sorry to chmera for ruining the world here? doubt it.

chefboy6969 · Nov 17, 2009

wow thanks so much for eveyone's OPINIONS and that's what ICMAG is all about but again just remember..Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one...
I can't believe this has become a discussion on the loss or preservation of the cannabis species..all i wanted was some input on what would be a good father for my seed run..and it has become a something totally different and NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT
So if you all want to further this discussion go ahead..My question has been lost in the rhetoric..and its too bad

peace
Chefboy

mean mr.mustard · Nov 17, 2009

nvisionary said:
mustard? you dont know what youre even talking about. Please explain how you retain all the genes from 2 populations when you use 1 plant from each.

Ask Chimera :biglaugh:

I never said you'll retain all the genes. You may retain the desired genes that are truebreeding for desired traits.

nvisionary said:
mean mr mustardto Chimera)"however I am sure you are aware that one selected individual phenotype of a strain can possibly breed true for desired traits."

Really. I would like you to show how this is done.

Now I must be the one who claims you don't even know what you're talking about... how can there be many if there was never one... the fact is there is more than one that would exhibit, as well as be true breeding for, a trait or traits. The selected individual could be one of those many plants.

Google breeding

Chef -- They are holding you up as some genetic saboteur. I uphold your desire to make your own seeds. I will get to the bottom of it even if you don't want anyone to.

What Male to use in a cross?

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