For those TRAITORS who think cannabis should be taxed

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

Here is the most important part of Jack's speech before the heart attack hit.

Jack Herer at Hempstalk 9/12/09 said:
This is what Jack actually said in closing at the Portland Hempstalk Festival, in video at 4 minutes, 2 seconds:

"I don't want to fucking give the United States government one fucking dollar of taxes. I think that they should go to fucking jail for getting you and me and 20 million people getting arrested for pot. It is the safest thing you can do in the universe. And that is what we are going to do in California. Okay? "

He collapsed just 3 minutes after giving this speech at the Portland Hempstalk Festival last week, on Sept. 12, 2009

You can see Jack's whole speech at www.hempstalk.org

JohnnyATL · Sep 19, 2009

fuck the feds.

He was pretty riled up. No wonder he had a heart attack

Lazyman · Sep 19, 2009

Amen Jack! Thx for posting FF, good clip. No taxation without representation! We went to war over this premise, but many have forgotten the lesson. It will cost us all dearly to re-learn.

Tony Aroma · Sep 19, 2009

I agree with what Mr. Herer said in the quote, but unfortunately we live in the real world. There are no free lunches. There is no way mj will ever be legal and not be taxed. Legalization is a big enough hurdle. To expect legalization without any taxes is unrealistic. And to expect any kind of retribution for past offenses committed by the government it also pure fantasy. Such talk is nice rhetoric, but not based in reality.

To update that old rallying cry, "no prohibition without representation."

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

Well it really won't be legalization if you can get sent to jail for not paying the taxes on the herb. It won't be legalization when people are still limited to quanties of living plants and dead plant matter.

It is very realistic to have legalization without excise taxes. Tony it's only because of "people" like you who are afraid to stand up for whats right and take the "easy route" that our liberties get erroded and that we have a fucking prohibition against cannabis in the first place.

Two of the most influential people ever when it comes to truely reforming Marijuana laws, Dennis Peron, and Jack Herer are AGAINST taxing weed. NOBODY else can claim to have the impact that either of them have had when it comes to legalizing pot and changing public opinion. Dennis sacrificed his job, and Jack sacrificed his heart, and possibly his life to fight against taxation. If you support taxation then you are not on the marijuana team. You may as well go sign up for police academy.

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

And there is historical presidence its called the Whiskey Rebellion,

They protested against the taxes and fought for their freedoms. In 1803 the tax that instigated the uprising was repealed.

Tony Aroma · Sep 19, 2009

FreedomFGHTR said:
Tony it's only because of pussies like you

I prefer to think of myself as a realist. I used to be an idealist, like you. But now I'm old and have heard and seen it all before. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying or your principles. I agree that cannabis should not be taxed. But if my choices are taxes or jail, and it looks like those are the choices at this point in time, I'd choose taxes.

The government is big and has a lot of momentum in its favor. Changes come about slowly, little by little. To expect a major change all at once is unreasonable. The first step is keeping people out of jail for using cannabis. If that change requires taxing cannabis, then I'd consider it a fair compromise. Once that's accomplished, then we can work out the details. But, to me anyway, the most important thing is not making criminals out of cannabis users. All the other related issues, like taxes and regulation, are trivial in comparison.

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

First off sorry for calling ya a pussy. That was a bit harsh.

Tony Aroma said:
I'd love to live in a perfect world where people are free and happy and the government always does what is right. When you're young you think it might just be possible to change the world. But now I'm pretty positive it just ain't gonna happen.

If everyone keeps believing the lie of complacency nothing will ever happen. All it takes is faith. If every person that wanted a better government actually did just one thing to accomplish it, then it would happen.

I know that change is possible because my friend changed the marijuana laws here, which resulted in 12 other states following behind.

Just remember when it comes time to vote that it does matter. Don't do the lesser of two evils crap, go with your heart what you actually want.

Preacher · Sep 19, 2009

Agreed with Tony. Everything about cannabis prohibition exists thanks to self-serving assholes in the government and the only way to get what you want out of a self-serving asshole is by showing him the opposite approach to something means even more profit than the current system.

It's that or revolution and good luck competing against the 57% of the federal budget that's used for war.

Edit: the ideas presented in the Declaration of Independence probably support a revolution now more than they did when the damn thing was written but unlike back then the rich white people have allied with the government rather than tried to escape it.

PharmaCan · Sep 19, 2009

One of the big problems with our elections is that we are constantly forced to choose between the lesser of two evils - and that distinction is becoming less clear every day as almost every politician is a whore that is bought and paid for by corporate interests.

There's a solution to this problem, if people would only do it, and that is to vote in the primaries. If people turned out to vote in the primaries, we could actually get some decent people on the ballot. As it is now, by the time the elections come around we are already screwed, regardless of who we vote for.

This doesn't only apply to ending prohibition, but to every aspect of American life - from health care to job protection, from using our military might against defenseless countries to protecting the most vulnerable in our society.

PC

Hydro-Soil · Sep 19, 2009

Tony Aroma said:
I agree with what Mr. Herer said in the quote, but unfortunately we live in the real world. There are no free lunches. There is no way mj will ever be legal and not be taxed. Legalization is a big enough hurdle. To expect legalization without any taxes is unrealistic.

I agree wholeheartedly. Is it right? No! Will it raise the level of awareness of what's actually 'right' in regards to cannabis? Yes!

Will the laws be looked upon as silly and be changed in the future? Yes! Show me how long a $50/oz tax is going to last when the wholesale on it is $5? No, the tax will not stay and crabbing about it now will only hinder progress.

First we need awareness.

Anyone that is small cash-cropping right now should look into training materials and programs for teaching what they know. The bottom is going to drop out of the market when this happens. Anyone that's doing serious large scale cropping needs to get their business plan in place so they can get big-money investors as soon as this goes legal.

There are THOUSANDS of new jobs that will be opening up and the industries will need competent growers and workers throughout it. Stop looking so close to your feet and focus on the horizon for a change!

anonymousgrower · Sep 19, 2009

I agree with tony on this one, fuckers will never be able to tax my closet though.

ureapwhatusow · Sep 19, 2009

FreedomFGHTR said:
Here is the most important part of Jack's speech before the heart attack hit.

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He collapsed just 3 minutes after giving this speech at the Portland Hempstalk Festival last week, on Sept. 12, 2009

You can see Jack's whole speech at www.hempstalk.org

i have written many times on the danger of legalization because it gives the government (and corporate lobbies) control

etinarcadiaego · Sep 19, 2009

Tony Aroma said:
I agree with what Mr. Herer said in the quote, but unfortunately we live in the real world. There are no free lunches. There is no way mj will ever be legal and not be taxed. Legalization is a big enough hurdle. To expect legalization without any taxes is unrealistic. And to expect any kind of retribution for past offenses committed by the government it also pure fantasy. Such talk is nice rhetoric, but not based in reality.

To update that old rallying cry, "no prohibition without representation."

Very well said

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

Hydro-Soil said:
I agree wholeheartedly. Is it right? No! Will it raise the level of awareness of what's actually 'right' in regards to cannabis? Yes!

Last time I checked Dennis Peron and Jack Herer have done a lot more to raise awareness of cannabis and legalization then pretty much everyone else. In 1996 there was this thing called proposition 215 that got approved by a majority of voters in California. I am pretty sure that prop 215 is what raised awarness. And it was approved w/o taxation as enticement.

http://vote96.sos.ca.gov/BP/215.htm said:
Summary of Legislative Analyst's
Estimate of Net State and Local Government Fiscal Impact:

Adoption of this measure would probably have no significant fiscal impact on state and local governments.

Hydro-Soil said:
Will the laws be looked upon as silly and be changed in the future? Yes! Show me how long a $50/oz tax is going to last when the wholesale on it is $5? No, the tax will not stay and crabbing about it now will only hinder progress.

While they maybe looked on as silly, the war on weed has been raging for 70 years now. Laws once enacted take forever to repeal.
You are right how long is a tax at $50 going to last? Not long at all because it will be raised by the politicians. Why don't you show me an example of an excise tax ever going down? Show me something with some history behind it. I clearly have demonstrated that history favors the side of non taxation and the people who support that point of view.

Hydro-Soil said:
First we need awareness.

Yeah awareness that taxation is wrong, the money will just be used to lockup other people. Awareness that government regulation and control of cannabis is a violation of every human beings right to liberty. Thinking that paying taxes and allowing the government to regulate our plants in order to gain "recognition/protection/security" with LEO is Anti American.

Benjamin Franklin said:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

Do you people even have a spine? 17,388 brave Americans were casualties during the Revolutionary and 1812 wars. The wars that gave us our indepence and freedom. Just as people fought for those rights, people died to get prop 215 passed. Yes 215 isn't just about sitting around and hitting the bong. A lot of pain and suffering made it happen. Now you think that those peoples pain and suffering should be ignored so you can have a false sense of security?

Hydro-Soil said:
Anyone that is small cash-cropping right now should look into training materials and programs for teaching what they know. The bottom is going to drop out of the market when this happens. Anyone that's doing serious large scale cropping needs to get their business plan in place so they can get big-money investors as soon as this goes legal.

There are THOUSANDS of new jobs that will be opening up and the industries will need competent growers and workers throughout it. Stop looking so close to your feet and focus on the horizon for a change!

Um that isn't on the horizon it's already here. There are atleast 5 cannabis specific trade schools in California already. There are jobs availible in cannabis media (print and online), cannabis law professionals besides lawyers. We have atleast 1000 "dispensaries" in the state already. There are already TENS of THOUSANDS of jobs.

love? · Sep 19, 2009

I am also against taxes in the USA. In another country I might support them.

anonymousgrower · Sep 19, 2009

rofl "traitor" , man iv been doing good for the weed community for years, and iv broken hundreds of people's weed cherries; take that neg rep back right now lol.

Rustylions · Sep 19, 2009

It should be taxed.

In the same manner that you pay tax on every good you buy or service you use. If cannabis is to be sold through commercial or retail distribution avenues than any profits to be made on it should be taxed. I disagree with a flat "xx$ per ounce" tax as it creates room in the system for people to distort sales and sale amounts.

If legalisation occurs and Johnny Grower makes $20 000 selling to local dispensaries than he should pay tax to the government on his $20 000. The fact that he made it selling cannabis isn't important. The fact that he made it is. The whole 'fuck the government' attitude is entirely deserved, you guys in the States have every reason to be pissed off, but not paying taxes will only worsen your current circumstances.

And whilst im ranting, man the lack of respect some people are showing to your president right now is amazing. Signs like 'We came unarmed- this time" right out front where the guy is speaking. Love him or hate him the man is trying to do one of the hardest jobs in the world.

Also the irrational fear of 'socialized' medicine is completely ridiculous. Efficient medical services cannot be provided by companies who wish to make a profit plain and simple. You really can't argue for the American system as it doesn't work. Look at Australia's, France's and the UK. Our medical systems all involve a small tax paid by everyone and slightly higher for high income earners. This works because it means everyone gets coverage, with the option of better coverage and more options for those who wish to buy private insurance.

We choose our doctors, we choose where we go to hospital, a standard visit to the doctor is the equivalent of $50USD which then gets rebated back to low income earners so it ends up $35USD.

Back to the point. The profits on cannabis should be taxed. The drug itself should not be.

FreedomFGHTR · Sep 19, 2009

anonymousgrower said:
rofl "traitor" , man iv been doing good for the weed community for years, and iv broken hundreds of people's weed cherries; take that neg rep back right now lol.

I'd double neg rep you given the opportuinity. Thanks for proving the point that you are a traitor however by going from doing good for the community to turning your back against it and suggesting that we finance the very machine that aims to destroy all.
:weakestli

ChronJohn · Sep 19, 2009

I definitely don't think it should have any "special" tax added onto the base price other than standard sales taxes. The gov't will be making enough taxes off of the sales tax, income tax, payroll tax, social security tax, etc that the vendors will be paying anyways. I absolutely do not agree with taxes PERIOD, AT ALL, because they are being used for things that are neither beneficial for me personally or our country. Every single person opposed to BAILOUTS, UNCONSTITUTIONAL WARS (including the War On Drugs), GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF PRIVATE INDUSTRY, and the FURTHER EROSION OF THE CONSTITUTION should cease paying taxes and watch the pool of loot the govt likes to dip into so often dry up faster than the sahara. This is, of course, unrealistic; most people have their taxes taken out of the paycheck before they even see the money, or are too ignorant and sheeple-minded to do such a thing. Anyways, I don't think we should give the gov't the power to tax cannabis. They'll get enough money off all the above taxes and all the money they'll be saving in law enforcement/prison costs. The costs to society will be little to nothing, it's a win-win for everyone. Except for law enforcement, prison-industrial complex, BigPharma, petrol-chemical companies, paper companies etc... oh the horror =/ remember with cannabis legalization comes hemp AND recreational cannabis.. two potentially HUGE industries that will really shake things up... it makes my balls tingle just thinking about it

For those TRAITORS who think cannabis should be taxed

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