Biobizz Topmax and Bio Heaven

Buffoonman · Sep 8, 2009

I have been using biobiz bloom and topmax for a while now, but have read several reports that topmax doesn't really make any difference. Just wondering if anybody has done a comparison grow with and without topmax or bioheaven, are they worth using? If not is a there a good organic product that does work. Thanks for any info Buffman.

etinarcadiaego · Sep 10, 2009

I used Topmax on my first indoor grow, which was a few years ago.

Honestly I really don't think it'll grow healthier buds, but BioBizz has excellent an excellent marketing firm in their employ and they can really "sell" shit.

I've used BioBizz Fish Mix and Bio Bloom my current grow, and my friend has used it to grow a sativa into beautiful buds for 3 -4 rounds now.

can't speak for Bio heaven, but i've been told both contain nutrients already present in the bio grow and bloom products. If i can cite a source I'll post back . . .

Buffoonman · Sep 10, 2009

Thanks for the info I suspect a lot of the additives available are more about marketing than results. Will try a couple of plants with and without topmax and bioheaven and report back.

habeeb · Sep 10, 2009

I see bio bizz using alot of seaweed and molasses, but seems alot of companies are going this way now a days with all the hype of seaweed and molasses

maryjohn · Sep 10, 2009

Their business model does not work unless they tell lies, because there are cheaper alternatives available in the mainstream gardening market. Competing with these companies requires more than just marketing.

pinecone · Sep 10, 2009

I've used the Grow, Bloom, Alg-a-mic, and TopMax. The only ones I currently use and would buy again are the Grow and Bloom. I wouldn't buy the Alg-a-mic and TopMax again because I have no evidence that they provide any benefit and they are pretty expensive if applied at recommended rates. The Grow and Bloom, however, and OMRI organic NPK fertilizers derived from non-animal products. At typically application rates these products together cost me less than $15 per year.

Pine

etinarcadiaego · Sep 10, 2009

The only ones I currently use and would buy again are the Grow and Bloom. I wouldn't buy the Alg-a-mic and TopMax again because I have no evidence that they provide any benefit and they are pretty expensive if applied at recommended rates.

My thoughts exactly. I used the alg-a-mic in my first grow as well, and would not use it again.

maryjohn · Sep 10, 2009

And you could do it even cheaper without the hydro store products.

I must question that 15$ per year figure, unless you are growing very little and using non perishable products. Making worm compost costs more than 15 a year if you trace the food scraps to your grocery bill.

All these grow products start with an assumption about the value of your harvest. Since the value of your harvest is artificially inflated, it's easy to do the same with grow products. Thus the grow store was invented to sell artificial value away from competition from mainstream products.

It's a great freakonomics subject.

pinecone · Sep 10, 2009

maryjohn said:
I must question that 15$ per year figure, unless you are growing very little and using non perishable products.

I have a 400w perpetual grow, but don't end up using very much in the way of bottled nutrients. A liter bottle of BioGrow or BioBloom is about $15. I don't feed plants in veg except for moms (and this is usually v. light top dressing of guano). For flowering plants I probably mix up 4-gallons of nutrient solution on average a week with about 2.5ml of BioGrow and BioBloom per gallon. Thus I'm using about 10ml a week of each or about 500ml (0.5 liters of each a year). As far as I can tell after using these products for 5 years, the don't go bad if stored in a cool place.

Pine

maryjohn · Sep 10, 2009

Ah I see. I thought you were talking about everything you use, not just singling out the nutes from bottles. It gave the impression you could grow with only 15 a year to spend on nutes. Further, how does this stuff last 5 years? Have you actually tried that?

In my experience your figure is still unrealistic even if you stay out of a hydro store. Sounds like the estimates I give my wife for fishing gear. I almost feel what you are thinking, because I a guilty too.

Better way to calculate value: assume you need to feed 1000 square feet of veggies or mj for a year. How would these products stack up cost wise against traditional amendments and fertilizers. Important factorsfor value include covenience, quality, etc...

The marketing trick you are talking about is simple: reduce the package size so the price point is right, which distracts from value.

TheBudFather · Sep 10, 2009

I use Biobizz Grow, Bloom with guano n Molasses... Easy as could be... with quality results everytime... I have converted many struggling wanabee Hydro growers round here with this method... its almost fool proof!... perfect for me :O)

pinecone · Sep 10, 2009

maryjohn said:
Ah I see. I thought you were talking about everything you use, not just singling out the nutes from bottles. It gave the impression you could grow with only 15 a year to spend on nutes. Further, how does this stuff last 5 years? Have you actually tried that?

The bottles I'm using now 2-years old because I shut things down for a while. They seem to work fine. Years ago I didn't operate perpetually so the bottles would last a lot longer.

In my experience your figure is still unrealistic even if you stay out of a hydro store.

I probably spend $10 a month on soil (FFOF) + $15 on bottled nutes, +$20 on guano (which I also use outside). Probably adds up to <$150.00 per year.

If I'm getting ripped off somehow I don't know about it. It all seems like good value to me.

Pine

maryjohn · Sep 10, 2009

I'd say you spend a lot for your square footage. You could do slot for 150.

Screw the bottles, you gotta get off the fox farm. Your local garden center probably sells great potting soil, or better yet mix your own. Convenience can be had, and at better prices.

Do you compost?

pinecone · Sep 11, 2009

maryjohn said:
I'd say you spend a lot for your square footage. You could do slot for 150.

Screw the bottles, you gotta get off the fox farm. Your local garden center probably sells great potting soil, or better yet mix your own. Convenience can be had, and at better prices.

I'm not interested in saving money if it means worm farming, buying stuff in bulk, or mixing up soils, especially when the savings that are offered are such a small amount of money. I'm willing to pay a small premium not to have to get my hands dirty.

Do you compost?

I do compost grass clippings, leafs, and kitchen(veg) scraps - outside. Also, all my old soil from inside gets composted for use in my vegetable garden.

Pine

Buffoonman · Sep 11, 2009

maryjohn said:
And you could do it even cheaper without the hydro store

All these grow products start with an assumption about the value of your harvest. Since the value of your harvest is artificially inflated, it's easy to do the same with grow products. Thus the grow store was invented to sell artificial value away from competition from mainstream products.

It's a great freakonomics subject.

That makes a lot of sense.

blackone · Sep 11, 2009

pinecone said:
I'm not interested in saving money if it means worm farming, buying stuff in bulk, or mixing up soils, especially when the savings that are offered are such a small amount of money. I'm willing to pay a small premium not to have to get my hands dirty.

I do compost grass clippings, leafs, and kitchen(veg) scraps - outside. Also, all my old soil from inside gets composted for use in my vegetable garden.

Pine

Man I know where you're coming from

My main inconvenience is bringing all of that soil home though - would love to establish a worm-farm etc. indoor to enable me to reuse it more.
Getting rid of old soil is even worse - I can use some for my querilla plots but through fall and winter that's not an option unless I bring it out there to sit until next year - hm maybe I should, but it's not very stealthy.

I'm using BioBizz Grow and Bloom - maybe all of the other stuff is good maybe not... but I know that there are still other areas in my grow where investing the same amount of money something like BioHeaven costs could definitely bring results.
I'm thinking about using alga-mic tho, because it's a good source for micro-nutrients.

maryjohn · Sep 11, 2009

This is what maddens me. Individually nobody feels screwed, because the value you are spending is good compared to what you are producing. You are not a bunch of rubes.

As a community, we have parasites, and they are the "grow" industry.

Buxxy · Sep 24, 2009

Ive used topmax for 3/4 grows and honestly Im afraid it didnt do much. The best buds I have ever had was the time i used Canna's Cannaboost. Ill never do any other brand than canna since Im 100% sure they make by far the BEST products in their business period!

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