Why are my babies drooping/curling? 2 1/2 weeks from seed

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

ok these broke ground 2 1/2 weeks ago, they are in a mix of 50/50 coco and fox farms ocean forest, which upon examination may not have been totally mixed (was fairly mixed, but roots may hit patches of one or the other). The leaves feel a little crispy and the lower ones are juuuuust starting to turn yellow. They are all a little yellow between the veins on the big leaves.

They spent their first week under various rigged up lighting situations, often underlit with flouros and different spectrums. for the last week and a half they have been in a PC under 2 bulbs, I changed spectrum and wattage a couple time to find what I thought they liked. Currently a 42w 2700k and a 30w 3500k. Temps are between 76 and 80, humidity between 50 and 70% because it's been raining recently. They were watered with distilled water at first, then brita water that I discovered was 7 to 8 ph!!! I then mixed up a gallon of brita water and added a drop of superthrive, 1/8 strength Fox farm grow big (I was worried the coco was cooling the soil off too much), and a tiny tiny pinch of kelp that turned the whole gallon pink/orange. Then I added PH down to get it to about 5.5 ph.
I was worried at first it was overwatering so after their first feeding on tuesday, I have only misted the top of the soil twice (because it got dry fast and I didnt want it to be so uneven). The soil is now dry about 1/3 of the way down...

HELP!!!

LolaGal · Aug 21, 2009

1) That FF OF is too hot for those babies.
2) They are too little to be feeding so much.

I'd guess it's a combo of overferts and over water? good luck.

Dr Dog · Aug 21, 2009

they look wet, looks like overwatering

ilandgrower · Aug 21, 2009

dr dog.. way off!.. to hot and not enough water is all

Dr Dog · Aug 21, 2009

ilandgrower said:
dr dog.. way off!.. to hot and not enough water is all

LOL ok, if you say so

EvilTwin · Aug 21, 2009

techno,
I've done a few coco runs and had various problems. It's a medium that requires some prep work. Was the coco pre-rinsed of salts? Did you do a pre-soak? I don't need answers really...just something for you to think about.

I lean more toward ilandgrowers position. Even with the soil in there, the coco still should drain really well and so overwatering would be...well not impossible, but much harder.

If I give nutes too early I usually get some deformed (usually twisty) leaves. See any of that? Good luck to you. I'm not a flush fan usually, but some plain water may help them.
ET

Miss Blunted · Aug 21, 2009

I would go with over watering...but then I just read that you have them in coco. Hmmmm....and soil. I don't know. I've grown in either or...never both. pH was too high...you realized that. It's too hot in there (maybe, I've grown well in those temps)....try to get it down a bit. I don't know the nutes you gave them...but it's too early I think.

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

Wow thanks for the REALLY fast replies... I think I'll give them a dunk in plain water (ph balanced to.... 5.5?), let them drain out, drunk, drain.
I also think it might be because of how tiny the cups are, they're 16oz party cups cut in half... I need new homes for them ASAP, going to a gardening store tomorrow. I really want something with a slotted bottom so I can air prune the roots, I feel like that's an awesome way to maximize soil space. The new mix will be 75% FFOF 25% coco.

Other things...

I did not wash the coco. I put it in there to avoid over/underwatering issues. I guess on my first grow it just HAS to happen.

I am surprised people think it's too hot... I thought that since it was 50/50 that it would be half the amount of nutrition as normally FFOF has. I guess it's just the strength, not the amount of nutrients, that is doing it. D'oh!

I DO have some twisty leaves, one of them has been a mutant from the start, with a couple little holes, twisted leaves, and light green from the get-go. As you can see there is also a runt. The mutant and the runt are the two bagseeds, the other 4 are blue mystic from nirvana. I killed one bagseed and one blue mystic as seedlings

EvilTwin · Aug 21, 2009

Techno...
Wait, now you're going to transplant them to a 75% Foxform soil mix? Think of them like little babies. You don't give them a steak...you give them pureed peas. Twisty leaves are a sure sign of overfeeding. I'd transplant them up but in a milder mix.
ET

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

EvilTwin said:
Techno...
Wait, now you're going to transplant them to a 75% Foxform soil mix? Think of them like little babies. You don't give them a steak...you give them pureed peas. Twisty leaves are a sure sign of overfeeding. I'd transplant them up but in a milder mix.
ET

I believe the overfeeding started when I started fertilizing. Yellow showed up at first this morning, before that it was just drooping.

The transplant wont be removing the current mix, just adding around it and cutting out the cup. So as they grow in the next 2 weeks they will have the nutes they need. And I read grow reports of other people growing from seed in 100% FFOF, and many do just fine, so I figure if the core is 50% and the edges are 25% coco, I should be safe. I really think it was the fertilizing not just the soil.

I will be taking a clone as soon as I can, and then putting these into flower ASAP to sex. I will kill the males and grow the mothers out to harvest, keeping the clones of the best 1 or 2 as banzai mums.

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

Ahhhhh! I went to sleep after flushing them, and woke up to see things still going to shit!
One of the plants has started developing dark grey/brown spots on the lower leaves. When I look through the leaf (with the light behind it) these spots are MUCH darker than the rest of the leaf.

Here are some pics to try and help... sorry about the poor quality.

Also, I switched the 3500k bulb to a 5500k bulb. Just because.

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

Still getting worse... some of the round baby leaves are turning yellow on most of the plants, and on one of them the bottom normal leaves are turning yellow... shitshitshit...

EvilTwin · Aug 21, 2009

Architechno said:
Still getting worse... some of the round baby leaves are turning yellow on most of the plants, and on one of them the bottom normal leaves are turning yellow... shitshitshit...

Architechno,
The round baby leaves are called cotyledons and they are sacrificial. Their whole role is to store nutrients and give them up as the seedling grows. So a dying yellow cotyledon is nothing to sweat.

Just make sure your parameters are good. Correct ph and good water. You're going to give yourself a stroke worrying.

Next time you start seeds, go buy some proper fine mild seed starting mix. I've heard people complain that seedlings don't do well in coco...but others swear by it.
ET

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

EvilTwin said:
You're going to give yourself a stroke worrying.

I got myself in a better mood by going to home depot and buying some carbon-filter-paper to make a scrubber with, then I got home and saw the tupperware that I bought fits it perfectly.
I was in a wonderful mood.

Then I opened up my PC and saw that the regular leaves are getting yellower, and another one is starting to get the dark spots! I really hope that by the time I check on them tonight, they will have dried out some and started getting healthy again...

EvilTwin · Aug 21, 2009

AT..
Put a fan on them. Just a nice breeze. They like the fresh air, it'll dry them out faster and it strengthens the stem.

I suppose they're some fancy high priced seeds. Never thought to ask. I feel your pain but I just don't have anything new to add. Hopin' for the best.
ET

Weedman Herb · Aug 21, 2009

Too much N ... too little fresh air ... and overwatering will cause these claw like leaves ... they sell seed starter for a reason. If FFOF is as ok for seedlings as some would say why is every other person that posts they are using it in the early stages having problems? Hmmmm ... Why were you feeding such young plants a nutrient solution ? Because the FFOF was getting cooled off by the coco ????

spongegirlz · Aug 21, 2009

Architechno said:
I am surprised people think it's too hot... I thought that since it was 50/50 that it would be half the amount of nutrition as normally FFOF has. I guess it's just the strength, not the amount of nutrients, that is doing it.

coming in late but wanted to comment regarding your issue

after lots of reading and research, decided to use Fox Farms Ocean Forest soil exclusively for our first indoor garden last winter, which ended up being a fantastic choice, as our end product(s) were simply perfect right down to bottom of the jar :respect:

ok, so thinking yeah, that yummy soil worked so well inside that we'll go ahead and use it for our outdoor garden too

:wallbash:

well, it turns out that that was not a good choice for our outdoor garden after all (LolaGal said it too) the FFOF by itself is just way too HOT/rich/nutritious and it took nearly the entirety of the veg season to figure out the problem

picked up some straight organic soil, took plants out of those pots, rinsed off their roots (which were blazing hot btw) and replaced them into a cooler mix of FFOF + organic soil :jump:

and they're all recovering thankfully, but a very valuable lesson was learned, albeit the hard way :bashhead:

can only imagine how amazing next years garden will be armed w/this knowledge

love to you and yours

make it a beautiful day

Architechno · Aug 21, 2009

OK so I just couldnt resist the urge to re-pot them. The garden store didnt have what I wanted so I did the best I could with what I have until then. I took 18oz party cups, flipped them over and cut a hole out of the bottom - so now the cup is like this / \ - and put a wire mesh across the bottom so the roots will air-prune. In the process of doing this I raised them right up to my face and got a good smell... and the blue mystics are starting to smell like weed! So awesome. But now that I have re-potted I have to get my new cab ready to grow TODAY! So it'll be a busy day of laying down aluminum tape for me, but it will have to sit open with a table fan until I do the caulking and install my fan... oy vey.

These are Nirvana Blue Mystic, and the other two are bagseed. Not expensive or fancy at all.

I think they were getting decent air... they were in a PC with 2 standard fans, and when I look in through the fans I see them wiggling in the wind.

Claw-like leaves are definately the name of the game... I have learned my lesson and will put my seedlings in something much gentler.

Spongegirlz, why do you think it was good for indoor but not outdoor? Was your indoor garden clones and outdoor was seed?
New advice is always appreciated, especially as this is an ongoing issue for me, which I am paying VERY close attention to right now.

Thanks to all for the ongoing help! Now it's time to just let them sit and see what happens!

Architechno · Aug 22, 2009

OK 8 hours later and not much good news.
It seems like a big of health has returned to the plants - the new growth is all quite perky and a good shade of green.
BUT
the plant that was starting to get brown/black spots... is getting worse! Check the pics out. Still have some yellowing on other plants.

Seriously, WTF is going on with this one? why is it getting these damn spots? It looks so sad...

Architechno · Aug 22, 2009

one more pic... some serious sickness

Why are my babies drooping/curling? 2 1/2 weeks from seed

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