Can we please make a Sticky for Powdery Mildew, Bud Rot, etc...

OK so since everyone seems to be ignoring my post and there is an abundance of PM posts, I was wondering if we can make a Sticky pertaining to protocols and include the following info:
1. Pros and Cons of a Sulfur Burner and a link to "How to build a sulfur burner"
2. How and when Dutch Masters "The Zone", and "Penetrator" should be used to effectivley eliminate/prevent PM
3. What to use during Veg and Flower. (neem oil, Zone and Penetrator, sulfur burner)
4. And even tho most people know this, remedies to prevent fungal problems like a clean room, sprinkling baking soda on the floor, dehumidifiers, proper air circulation, etc..
5. Keeping or eliminating clones and mothers that were exposed to PM or fungis.
Does this sound like a good idea, or are you all just going to tell me to search the archives?

ok, go for it folks. welcome to stickyville

10k said:

ok, go for it folks. welcome to stickyville

Click to expand...

There you go Dr_Love.

Now.... Go use the search function and fill your next post with notated links to the info you were asking about.

If I get a chance later I'll dig up some of the info I have here on a DIY insecticide that also works great on PM.

i have PM in now i am going to spray my plants with 10% milk and 90 % wather i found this info on this forum plants are in 6.th week of flowering

I posted a bunch in the past about PM but since this is a sticky I stuck some of the stuff together in this one post. There is some good stuff here.

I really like using silicon ALL the time, from day one add a bit to the resevoirs and maybe you can avoid catching it in the first place. Its really easy, cheap, and is a nutrient anyways.


The challenge is killing the asexual spores called conidia. These are the white "mildew" that is seen. PM also has sexual spores that it releases when it gets cold and it thinks winter is approaching. I think these are called cleistotheca and are little brown sap looking things on leaves that look like thrip turds. The conidia I read can live up to 21 days, the Cleistotheca live months. I think if you have mildew it is better to up the cold nights so that u only have conidia to fight against. These conida are asexual spores that need to live on another plant. They are obligate parasites. In nature they might get blown by the wind into atmosphere when conditions good and land far away and start to grow. In a room they might land on walls or any surface like edges of tables, under tables etc. I have yet to find out if conidia or cleistos can rest in medium and grow onto root for example. But so the spores are on the walls. How to kill them? You can turn off everything for 3 weeks which hopefully the spores will have died. But u do not want to have everything down that long so how can we accelerate this shut down? I think the variables and products might include Sulfur Burners, Ozone Gnerators, high temps and maybe other stuff too.

I just read a book called Hemp Diseases and Pests by MacPArtland, Clarke and Watson. It is very comprehensive and one guy is a college professor. Serious people should but it, it costs ~175 but worth it. On page 11 they mention PM. There are TWO species that infect cannabis; Sphaerotheca macularis and Leveillula taurica. Knowing these two names means interested people can research google these names and get lots of SPECIFIC information. One tidbit of interest is that the relative humidity for each for germination is different. L taurica conidia can germinate with 0% RH and optimal growth is 25C (77F). In contrast, S. macularis conidia germinate best at 100%RH with optimal growth at 15-20C (59-68). So perhaps the experience and advice that one might have could depend on the species you r experienced with and that is hard to know. L taurica likes it warm and dry whereas S macularis likes cool and wet. I supose there are some conditions that are bad for both. S macularis infects hops which is similar to cannabis.

Here is a brutal story; Hops used to be grown around New York, about 70 years ago PM infected the field and annihilated them. Not sure which strain, perhaps s macularis. The whole hops industry shut down and all hops growing moved to Washington state where this PM strain did not exist until about 2002 when it started showing up Outdoors, throught the last 100 years, PM often is so hartd to fight the whole industry will just move when possible. Now all the hops is fumigated and grown like grapes with lots of sulfur. The entire wine grape industry in USA uses Fumigants like Supher. Without them there would literally be no wine industry!

Pro-Tekt Silicon might be able to help against PM
Fighting this Borg is tough. I read some articles by greehouse people about silicon being used to toughen up plants. Dyna Gro makes it and lots of people use it, i think more for heat tolerance but it might be good for PM. Barricade also is Silicon. It will not eradicate it, it might control or mitigate it. It might makes leaf cells thinker. Below is an article from a recent legit journal. Any thoughts? Anybody use this? I recommend using it proactively as a normal fertilizer element BEFORE getting exposed to PM. Then u may never get PM!


http://www.springerlink.com/content/j6r7153t37233522/


Abstract Foliar and root applications of different silicon (Si)-based formulations were evaluated for their effects in reducing powdery mildew and promoting growth of wheat plants. X-ray microanalyses of treated plants revealed that root applications resulted in consistent deposition of Si in the leaves. In terms of powdery mildew control, root applications at 1.7 mM Si gave consistently the best results, reducing disease severity by as much as 80%, regardless of the product used. Although less effective than root applications, foliar treatments with both Si and nutrient salt solutions led to a significant reduction of powdery mildew on wheat plants. This suggests a direct effect of the products on powdery mildew rather than one mediated by the plant as in the case of root amendments. In our experiments, Si amendment, either through the roots or the leaves, did not increase plant growth. These results lead to the conclusion that Si is primarily, if not exclusively, absorbed by the root system and that such absorption by the roots is necessary for an optimal prophylactic effect.


I came up with a concept of infection that I will delineate now so that we can have a baseline for what infection is.

Level 0 (zero) infection: is actually NO infection. There are absolutely NO PM fungal bodies, mycellium, hyphae living anywhere in the system. This is primarily in a greenhouse or closed environment.

Level 1 infection: Low level infection. Under control. Rarely see patches but they do not really progress. Control might be natural immunity, resistance, neem oil, serenade. This is the natural state outdoors where spores might land on plants and not progress or might only get bad if weather changes. This is the state that many growers are in. They say they do not have mildew but really have a latent infection. If they give away clone that look ok the giftee gets PM. If they change the temp/humidity/environment then it shows up leading these people to say PM is always there and only conditions prevent it.

Level 2 infection: Full blown infection. Everything is being annihilated by PM. Trillions of spores. Might be using sulfur burner every week or two here to keep down infection, but stop and soon - WHAM.

I will try to use this nomenclature from here on sincce I think many people are in level 1 infection and think they are in level 0. An analogy is Herpes. Some people have cold sores all the time (level 2), many people have occasional outbreaks or even almost never (level 1), while some people do not have it and this can be proved by a negative antibody test (level 0).

I like to be at Level 0. Level 2 is unacceptable. Level 1 is an interesting place. Might plants that are really treated wtih proper control regimen and fresh vegeative plants revert to level 1????

The person I spoke with today said that Serenade applied weekly to level 1 plants might eradicate PM. The way that I have gone from Level 1 or 2 to level 0 is by shutting down as I mention above.


Link to article on greenhouse L taurica
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/peppermildew.htm
Of note is that in peppers here they take 21 days to grow and seem to have spores on underside of leaves.

Link to S macularis on hops
http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.or...view/2003/hpm/

I'll throw in - I had a rather large commercial medical grow op, and NEVER got Powdery mildew. The secret? Ozone and low humidity.

If you connect an ozone generator up to your intake, but on the switch with your exhaust fan, it only brings enough in to kill mold, but not kill your lungs or the smell on your flowers. I hooked it up to aid with smell a bit, and never looked back.

This doesn't seem to be the case with botrytis aka bud rot though, unfortunately. It does seem to help, but big, thick, sticky buds keep the ozone out, and the moisture in.

There is however some controversy around ozone and long term health effects, so you should only use it where it does not mix with living area air, although when you just cycle it with the exhaust fan, it's not that much really, and it usually has alot of stinky organic particles to oxidize in a grow room, which neutralizes both the ozone and the organic compounds.

Check out Silverback's suggestion of using Greencure. I think it is potassium bicarbonate and it supposedly knocks it out completely.
jakeh

With some input I have made an addition to the Zone/Penetrator spray. Add 15ml/gal of Canna Rhizotonic. It takes it to a 8.5 ph. I have also used it on it's own (well, truthfully with Cocowet and sometimes Vermi-T) to beat PM down in clones at transplant to veg too. It works well. The "belief" in addition is also that it helps boost the plants immune system, while speeding rooting to help the plant get healthy and fight the fungus.

This was shared with me by an experienced shop worker, and it proved to work. No one other then him seems to have caught on to it.

SO: I read about the success of Zone/Penetrator and tested adding the Rhizotonic to it. Bingo, no problems. Now I deliver the attack of systemic copper sulfate (this is what I believe really delivers the punch in the Zone combo), but also the ph alkaline shift, and the well proven booster in Rhizotonic. Nice plentiful healthy roots with thick stems is what I noticed in foliar use of it. Great for transplant stress as well. Stop use after maybe 3-4 week of flower. Rhizo is about $60 a quart, and you use so little it is actually super cheap. A real efficient use of 1 spray to cover many fronts.

Organocide is the best product I've used for PM and it also kills fungas gnats, spider mites and 23 other insects. Its omri organic and is 92% edible fish oil, 5% seaseme oil, 3% lecithin.
Diluted to 2oz/gallon and it kills/prevents pm in any stage and is perfectly fine for the plants and your home. It does smell for a little, but its so safe you can use it close to harvest.

Can be bought at home depot or online

http://www.hydroponicsoutlet.com/Organocide-Concentrate-Quart-p/org705.htm

i had success with Serenade...its OMRI, also.

for walls and hard surfaces, i use a diluted bleach solution.

i pput a dehumidifier in the grow last year, my RH is always in control now.

The problem with using Organicide and other oils is that they don't really take it out, they just smother it down. It comes back usually, and because you have used oil, you now cannot use one of the most effective treatments: sulphur. Sulphur will severly burn plants if you have used any oils in the last 30 days.

Organicide/oils maybe fine in veg, but not in flower. Sulpher and Zone/Penetrator in my opinion are the best options till about week 4-5. With milk being good for late flowering when you just want to hold it down without damaging anything.

I sprayed 200 plants with freaking Organicide (For whiteflys), a month ago....(Not my choice by a long shot!! I work for someone else, they call the shots) but I had to throw away all the clothes and shoes I wore...the place smelled like a fishery!!

From the Journal of General Plant Pathology, sometime in 2004: From 1996 to 1997, potassium silicate (SiO2) was tested at 0, 25, 50, and 100 mg l−1 in hydroponics to control powdery mildew. Other elements were added in the usual amounts, and the strawberries were cultivated hydroponically in a greenhouse for 4 months (from October to January). The powdery mildew spread in the control plot, but little mildew developed in the plot with 25 mg l−1 silicate, and none in plots with more than 50 mg l−1 silicate. The suppressive effect lasted for about 4 months on fruits and even longer on leaves. On analysis of mineral content in the leaves, only the silicate content differed markedly between the control and treated plants. Nitrogen, phosphate, potassium, and calcium contents did not differ greatly. The maximum silicate content was about 24 times that of the control, and disease severity decreased significantly when the content was more than 1.5% in the leaves. The hardness of the strawberry leaves, measured by a creep meter, was increased by the silicate treatment.

The above is quoted to support Sarek's earlier suggestion about potassium silicate as a prophylactic protecting against powdery mildew. Maybe this could be combined with the other methods to control throughout veg and flower. I have heard how successful the zone + penetrator solution has been, but doesn't it contain chlorine? I wonder if it would affect taste if used too late in flower...

Chimera made a post about Actually Killing PM. (link)

I made the mistake of using Organocide. My room smelt like stinky fish stir fry for 2 weeks. That shit stinks. Stick with the neem oil if you're going to use a oil spray.

Frozenguy said:

Organocide is the best product I've used for PM and it also kills fungas gnats, spider mites and 23 other insects. Its omri organic and is 92% edible fish oil, 5% seaseme oil, 3% lecithin.
Diluted to 2oz/gallon and it kills/prevents pm in any stage and is perfectly fine for the plants and your home. It does smell for a little, but its so safe you can use it close to harvest.

Can be bought at home depot or online

http://www.hydroponicsoutlet.com/Organocide-Concentrate-Quart-p/org705.htm

Click to expand...

Does anyone know about using Dutch Master Zone/Penetrator? I have heard you can dunk to totally eradicate PM from the plant, or as a spray to keep it down (even late into flower!?). Spraying is the only affordable option unless you cut back on the penetrator. How late can you use that mix into flower without it being a problem for your health, or is it a problem?
Also how late can you use Einstein Neem oil into flower?
Should you rinse to take off either of these residues?
PM IS THE DEVIL!!!!

I prefer Serenade. DM Zone has chloramine in it. I add it to my water for bug issues.

for PM apart from a sulfur burner(outdoors) there is one thing that works pretty well = prevention prevention prevention.


I treat my whole garden(not just the MJ) 2 times per season with anti mildew product , the MJ plants get their last treatment about a month before flowering begins.


I always used to have PM but that is over now