Plastics & Toxicity (Ostrich vs. Chicken Little)

Plastics are one of those ubiquitous wonders of the modern age: most of us can't picture a world without them even though they've really only been in use for about a century. But the news is full of reports lately about the health risks of plastics, especially PVC, but also some other kinds as well. And most of us here at IC - and especially indoor growers, particularly hydro growers - use a lot of plastic materials. We scavenge them from other things like 2 liter bottles, McGyver plumbing PVC to our needs, adapt tupperware containers, even buy them outright in the form of plastic net pots and whatnot. The evidence suggests that toxic chemicals start leaching into water with heat, acidity, etc... and we all know that grows can fit that description effortlessly.

Do any of you pay any regard to this stuff? I mean, I know we all hear about new health threats every day and have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt and a ton of skepticism and not be Chicken Littles about it, but on the other hand pulling an ostrich and burying our heads in the sand isn't going to get us anywhere either.

That said, here's an interesting little read from a green-living site.

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Which Plastics Are Safe?

The news about plastics has been pretty alarming lately, causing some of us to go dashing for the water bottles to see what kind of plastic they are—and find out if we’ve been unwittingly poisoning our children and ourselves with chemicals leaching into the water from them.

If you’ve been concerned, here is a handy chart that identifies the good, bad, and OK plastics and where they are found. Find out here:

1 Polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE)
Used to make soft drink, water, sports drink, ketchup, and salad dressing bottles, and peanut butter, pickle, jelly and jam jars.
GOOD: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones.

2 High density polyethylene (HDPE)
Milk, water, and juice bottles, yogurt and margarine tubs, cereal box liners, and grocery, trash, and retail bags.
GOOD: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones.

3 Polyvinyl chloride (V or PVC)
Most cling-wrapped meats, cheeses, and other foods sold in delicatessens and groceries are wrapped in PVC.
BAD: To soften into its flexible form, manufacturers add “plasticizers” during production. Traces of these chemicals can leach out of PVC when in contact with foods. According to the National Institutes of Health, di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP), commonly found in PVC, is a suspected human carcinogen.

4 Low-density polyethylene (LDPE)
Some bread and frozen food bags and squeezable bottles.
OK: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones, but not as widely recycled as #1 or #2.

5 Polypropylene (PP)
Some ketchup bottles and yogurt and margarine tubs.
OK: Hazardous during production, but not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones. Not as widely recycled as #1 and #2.

6 Polystyrene (PS)
Foam insulation and also for hard applications (e.g. cups, some toys)
BAD: Benzene (material used in production) is a known human carcinogen. Butadiene and styrene (the basic building block of the plastic) are suspected carcinogens. Energy intensive and poor recycling.

7 Other (usually polycarbonate)
Baby bottles, microwave ovenware, eating utensils, plastic coating for metal cans
BAD: Made with biphenyl-A, a chemical invented in the 1930s in search for synthetic estrogens. A hormone disruptor. Simulates the action of estrogen when tested in human breast cancer studies. Can leach into food as product ages.

[B][url]http://www.care2.com/greenliving/which-plastics-are-safe.html[/B][/url]
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My thoughts:

• Does anyone have experience with glass containers as hydro pots?

• Are there any product lines that specifically address this?

• What other alternative materials might there be?

Everything will kill you, except weed.

I find that funny.

I've heard a lot about PVC plasticizers lately on these boards. They are nasty, but when was the last time anyone used soft or flexible PVC on their grow? I have PVC pipes moving water in my system, and many people grow in PVC pipes or posts, but none of those are a problem.

Under what circumstances do people actually use the soft stuff?

Vinyl tubing, for starters. That's "soft" PVC. Silicone tubing is supposed to be the way to go in that regard. But again... not everyone can buy a lot of this stuff locally and are wary of mail ordering too much conspicuous equipment.

alphacat said:

Vinyl tubing, for starters. That's "soft" PVC. Silicone tubing is supposed to be the way to go in that regard. But again... not everyone can buy a lot of this stuff locally and are wary of mail ordering too much conspicuous equipment.

Click to expand...

if you buy medical stuff there is nothing conspicuous about it

more important things to be paranoid about, like your neighbor giving you the stink eye

Fuckin' neighbors. Sheesh.

If you’ve been concerned, here is a handy chart that identifies the good, bad, and OK plastics and where they are found. Find out here:

1 Polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE)
Used to make soft drink, water, sports drink, ketchup, and salad dressing bottles, and peanut butter, pickle, jelly and jam jars.
GOOD: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones.

2 High density polyethylene (HDPE)
Milk, water, and juice bottles, yogurt and margarine tubs, cereal box liners, and grocery, trash, and retail bags.
GOOD: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones.

3 Polyvinyl chloride (V or PVC)
Most cling-wrapped meats, cheeses, and other foods sold in delicatessens and groceries are wrapped in PVC.
BAD: To soften into its flexible form, manufacturers add “plasticizers” during production. Traces of these chemicals can leach out of PVC when in contact with foods. According to the National Institutes of Health, di-2-ethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP), commonly found in PVC, is a suspected human carcinogen.

4 Low-density polyethylene (LDPE)
Some bread and frozen food bags and squeezable bottles.
OK: Not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones, but not as widely recycled as #1 or #2.

5 Polypropylene (PP)
Some ketchup bottles and yogurt and margarine tubs.
OK: Hazardous during production, but not known to leach any chemicals that are suspected of causing cancer or disrupting hormones. Not as widely recycled as #1 and #2.

6 Polystyrene (PS)
Foam insulation and also for hard applications (e.g. cups, some toys)
BAD: Benzene (material used in production) is a known human carcinogen. Butadiene and styrene (the basic building block of the plastic) are suspected carcinogens. Energy intensive and poor recycling.

7 Other (usually polycarbonate)
Baby bottles, microwave ovenware, eating utensils, plastic coating for metal cans
BAD: Made with biphenyl-A, a chemical invented in the 1930s in search for synthetic estrogens. A hormone disruptor. Simulates the action of estrogen when tested in human breast cancer studies. Can leach into food as product ages.[/I]

[B][url]http://www.care2.com/greenliving/which-plastics-are-safe.html[/B][/url]
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Im prety shure you can find alla this stuff rite inside a hospital. Dont they stik that tubin up peoples noses?

Yea. You can find alla the stuff listed on that list of bad plastic in a hospital. They got ketchup and baby bottles and bread rappers and tubin and stuff. They shure do stik that tubin up sick peoples noses too. I dont tnink its so bad. Im shure not gonna wory bout it. Wazzit suposed to do to ya anyhow, make ya retarded or somethin? It'l have to hurry to catch up with me annyhow!

Phthalate Exposure Linked to Less-Masculine Play by Boys

Phthalate Exposure Linked to Less-Masculine Play by Boys

from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091116085040.htm

Phthalate Exposure Linked to Less-Masculine Play by Boys

ScienceDaily (Nov. 16, 2009) — A study of 145 preschool children reports, for the first time, that when the concentrations of two common phthalates in mothers' prenatal urine are elevated their sons are less likely to play with male-typical toys and games, such as trucks and play fighting.

The University of Rochester Medical Center-led study is published in the International Journal of Andrology.

Because testosterone produces the masculine brain, researchers are concerned that fetal exposure to anti-androgens such as phthalates -- which are pervasive in the environment -- has the potential to alter masculine brain development, said lead author Shanna H. Swan, Ph.D., professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, director of the URMC Center for Reproductive Epidemiology, and an expert in phthalates.

"Our results need to be confirmed, but are intriguing on several fronts," Swan said. "Not only are they consistent with our prior findings that link phthalates to altered male genital development, but they also are compatible with current knowledge about how hormones mold sex differences in the brain, and thus behavior. We have more work to do, but the implications are potentially profound."

Phthalates are chemicals used to soften plastics. Recent studies have shown that the major source of human exposure to the two phthalates of most concern (DEHP and DBP) is through food. These phthalates are used primarily in polyvinyl chloride (PVC), so any steps in the processing, packaging, storage, or heating of food that use PVC-containing products can introduce them into the food chain.

Phthalates are also found in vinyl and plastic tubing, household products, and many personal care products such as soaps and lotions. Phthalates are becoming more controversial as scientific research increasingly associates them with genital defects, metabolic abnormalities, and reduced testosterone in babies and adults. A federal law passed in 2008 banned six phthalates from use in toys such as teethers, play bath items, soft books, dolls and plastic figures.

In Swan's study, higher concentrations of metabolites of two phthalates, di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (DEHP), and dibutyl phthalate (DBP), were associated with less male-typical behavior in boys on a standard play questionnaire. No other phthalate metabolites measured in-utero was linked to the less-masculine behavior. Girls' play behavior was not associated with phthalate levels in their mothers, the study concluded.

Swan's interest in phthalates stems from an investigation into the environmental causes of reproductive health problems. Since 1998 she has led the federally funded, multi-center Study for Future Families (SFF), which established a large database from which to explore various scientific questions about toxins.

The current study focused on a small sample of SFF mothers who delivered children between 2000 and 2003. The mothers provided urine samples around the 28th week of pregnancy. The urine was analyzed for phthalate metabolites by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Swan hypothesized that phthalates may lower fetal testosterone production during a critical window of development -- somewhere within eight to 24 weeks gestation, when the testes begin to function -- thereby altering brain sexual differentiation.

To explore the question, researchers reconnected with mothers from the SFF sample and asked them to complete a standard research questionnaire, called the Preschool Activities Inventory (PSAI), for their children ages 3 1/2 to 6 1/2 years.

The PSAI is designed to discriminate play behavior within and between the sexes, and in the past has been shown to reflect the endocrine-disrupting properties of other toxins, such as PCBs and dioxins. The PSAI addressed three aspects of play: types of toys children choose (trucks versus dolls), activities (rough-and-tumble play, for example), and child characteristics.

However, researchers were concerned about how the choice of toys available in any given household might skew results, so in addition they asked about parental views toward atypical play. For example, the survey asked, "What would you do if you had a boy who preferred toys that girls usually play with?" The possible answers included "strongly encourage" (him to play this way) to "strongly discourage."

The final survey scores are designed to reflect sex-typical play. Higher scores meant more male-typical play and lower scores meant more female-typical play.

Researchers then examined boys play-behavior scores in relation to the concentration of phthalate metabolites in their mothers' prenatal urine samples, finding that higher concentrations of DEHP and DBP metabolites were associated with less masculine play behavior scores.

Earlier studies by Swan and others have shown that phthalate exposure during pregnancy might affect the development of genitals of both male rodents and baby boys. Scientists refer to this cluster of genital alterations as the "phthalate syndrome," and research suggests that in rodent pups, the syndrome can have adverse consequences for later sexual development.

If endocrine disrupters such as phthalates can impair genital development and hormone levels in the body, the play-behavior study noted, then a deeper examination of how these chemicals impact the brain is warranted.

Hello,
I Started A Thread A Couple Weeks Ago About Using Plastic Jars Instead Of Glass For Curing. Some Replies Said That Pot & Plastic Can Have An Chemical Reaction. Which Ruined There Grow. I Asked About Food Safe Plastic Containers No Real Answer.
I've Read Where People Use Plastic Jars, 5 Gal. Buckets, Rubbermaid, Tupperware, & Turkey Bags With No Problems. So What Is It Good Or Bad?
I've Got Buds That Won't Fit In Glass Jars So I Will Be Using Plastic. It's Got Me A Little Worried!

Thank You
Longhair