Effects of Pregrowing OD Cannabis plants

For quite a few years now, Ive been engaged in a number of half assed studies about the behavior of seed grown cannabis outdoors, and specifically, how I could improve on the results that mother nature provides with regaurd to size and yield.

Ive tried everything from colchicine and growth stimulants, to pregrowing indoors for months in an effort to get a bigger, heavier yielding plant. Different approaches had different results, but one approach had a consistent result that was suprising and contrary to commonly held beleifs of outdoor growers, and that is the approach of pregrowing plants indoors in a effort to increase yield or speed maturation.

Over several years and a number of strains and plants, I realized no dicernable difference in size , yield or finish date to the postitive between plants pregrown for 60 days or more indoors and then transplanted OD, and those planted OD as seedlings on May 1, when measured on Oct. 1. In fact in over half of the plants, the pregrown plant was smaller and yielded less than the plant that was not pregrown. The potential for sexual confusion also seemed to increase dramatically as the time of indoor pregrowing increased. In over half of the pregrown plants, flowering was later by as much as 2 weeks and as pregrowing time lengthened, the more the plant tended to be confused about whether to flower or veg, so it does both at the same time.

Those results were so consistent regaurdless of strain that about 4 years in, I stopped pregrowing cannabis more than 30 days under any circumstances.

Then I began focusing on planting dates and made another discovery. Most often, I could find no real difference on Oct. 1 in size and yield in 3 week old seedlings planted on April 25th, and those started from seed on May 1.

Conclusions:

The results measured at the end of the season, against plants not pregrown demonstrates that pregrowing cannabis for more than 30 days indoors before transplanting OD doesn't result in a larger, higher yeilding plant and may infact, increase dramatically sexual and growth stage confusion and other conditions as well as a decreased yield.


*High nitrogen available during certain high growth phases of the plant, combined with topping, seems to have a much greater effect on size and yield than any attempt at pregrowing.


Just me thinkin and talkin again. One of the joys of membership here. Any input or ideas?

I absolutely and totally agree with you! My best crops were always started outdoors. I have NEVER had a herm outdoors.

silverback, you have brought up an interesting point. To tell you the truth, I've discovered the same thing over the years of growing.

For example, this year I decided to plant everything outside as seeds at the end of May. All the plants in this thread were started as seeds directly outside at the end of may: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1943528#post1943528.

Every other year, I started them inside and grew them for like 2 to 3 weeks inside before taking them out at the end of May. This year, my yield per container and per plant was a little better than any other year (and we've had much better seasons in the past compared to this one). Furthermore, the finishing time was about exactly the same as the other years where I started them inside first (Guerilla Gold end of August and GG crosses early to mid september). So, needless to say I will never be starting seedlings inside first before taking them out ever again.

Now, I have seen people online post pictures of beasts that they grew inside for quite some time before taking out. I think it is somewhat dependant upon the strain, climate, and growing conditions. All that I know is the way that I grew growing my strain, I will never start seedlings inside before taking them out.

Greens

Ialso fully agree Silverback. I believe indoor pre-grown plants form woody stems which are very slow to revert to tender green fast-growing stalks again. This year some guy put out some 5 foot moms out in the spring close to a spot of mine ( weird surprise indeed ) he harvested 6 foot plants in the fall !

That said i believe a greenhouse head start in a big pot which doesn't inhibit vigorous growth could make for a bigger plant in the fall. Too much trouble for guerillas but ok for backyard giants.

Hi all.

Glock, I also get a higher percentage of females with germination under the sun. Indoor starts = 3-4 females per 10 pack. Outdoor starts = 5-6 females per pack.

Greens, Ive found the same thing. I do believe there are two instances where pregrowing may be helpful if done very carefully. The first would be far northern growers that need a little more time in the season and the second would be the fragility of seedlings. A 3 week old seedling has a much better chance of surviving a bug attack or snails than a tiny tender seedling, but thats pretty much it.

I also found the effects of pregrowing to be greatly reduced when the plant does not become rootbound in anyway. Plants that i pregrew in 5 gallon buckets, did not display some of the problems noticed in other attempts with up to a 3 gallon container. While this seemed to help, its impracticle to try and start plants in 5 gallon buckets. How many can you start? Further, the issue of lighting stabilty becomes more and more critical as the length of pregrow continues. I have never been able to get a plant pregrown for more than 60 days to flower normally when taken from artificial light to natural. The daylength, the intensity of the light, the colors of the light all cause deep trauma for the plant and screw up its normal growth processes.

zapatoloco, youre right, out in the backyard you can do a lot of things a guerilla cant do. Youre also right about the rigidity of the stem and development of the plant. In landscaping, there's a saying about planting a tree. The bigger the transplant, the longer it takes to recover from being transplanted.

The first year they sleeep
The second year they creep
The third year they leap

Even though cannabis is an annual plant, the effects of transplanting larger plants is universal. The larger the plant, the more it suffers during transplant and the longer it takes to recover.

silverback said:

Greens, Ive found the same thing. I do believe there are two instances where pregrowing may be helpful if done very carefully. The first would be far northern growers that need a little more time in the season and the second would be the fragility of seedlings. A 3 week old seedling has a much better chance of surviving a bug attack or snails than a tiny tender seedling, but thats pretty much it.

Click to expand...

Pre-growing doesn't extend the season for northern growers, the frost is still gonna come whenever it does.

Are you talking about northern growers pre-growing a plant indoors, starting it flowering and then putting it out mid/late season?

It's been my experience that the further north you go, plants (veggies, mj, etc) that are started outside might have a lower survival rate at the beginning, but the ones that do make it are way hardier than plants that are started inside and transplanted outside.

SB
I also agree. I have recently started growing all my plants from seeds outdoors (cold frame). Before that I cloned and brought 2 ft plants to the grow sites. I was sure that this produced trees but the last couple of years have proved otherwise as I have been able to produce large plants from seedlings set in there final spot on June 1st.

I will say that as Greens replied the strain might make a difference and survival rate also.


Peace

Hey hamstring. I start planting on april 25th and plant up until july, but its hard to tell much difference between seedlings transplanted out on april 25 and those planted June 1, when october comes. Sometimes the earlier plants appear a little taller or bigger, but when you measure the yield there aint a spit of difference.


blynx, I hear you on the frost and no, pregrowing dont make them flower any sooner, I just thought it might let a northern grower get a little bigger plant with a month or so pregrow. Not living there though, Im just guessing. I ll bet youre right about the hardiness of the survivors. What a great place for selecting for hardiness. Anything that survives is breeding stock.

Very interesting topic..........so would you all say to not pop seeds early in the year and put out clones. Just grow out the seed instead and dont pregrow for more than 50-60 days. Thank you for your help

good thread silver thanks its got me thinkin..root the clones in a coldframe too maybe. i gave up pretty much on the outdoors by my ol man still slaves away at it. i will suggest this to him for next years but you know ol folks can be stubborn... and still insist i pregrow him a shitload o clones again but on the idea i agree with ya. i think most of these backyard monsteers may be started in but thats different kinda i guees. i vow to find out one day

Very Interesting topic!

I do outdoors every year, i often will do my seedlings/clone indoors and i do notice these plants dont really grow too big at all. (tho they stay just under the fence where i like them to be )

i've put a few seedlings out this month and will see how they go compared to the others, tho the seedlings have been grown indoors for a week
or so.

i dont really pregrow plants anymore than just past 3 inches i will then put the outside where they are ment to be. i notice they grow alot quicker outside than inside.

Great thread SB. Seed plants indoors take a week or two longer, and yield more than the same plants clones grown subsequently; likely due to maturity. A definite bonus outdoors when going for a larger yield.

When you guys use clones outdoors, do you use a standard 18/6-24/0 vegetative cycle? If so, that could be one the reasons for the smaller plants. They would tend to go into flowering earlier because of the greatly increased hours of darkness under the natural light cycle. I have often seen plants grown under 24/0 veg cycles go into flowering if the light cycle is reduced to 18/6; variety dependent of course.

I believe I remember seeing Reeferman flowering Nigerian Nightmare in the middle of summer after it had been veged under a 24/0 light cycle.

I'm not an outdoor grower so I'm just trying to throw my observations in the mix.

silver great stufff

I start my beans up in early may pot em out side i late may bacause of my lattitude.
I use big pots and many repoting to make the roots go big ,because then your plant will go big to..The strain is a big issue as well...Topping is good but it will stress them and then sex fustration maybe will apear, insted i will tie em down and then you wont slow the main bud in its budding up process u will whit topping,,, i think topping is why my bigbud bud up this late.

but thank u now i wont try to pre grow em

Bigbud


Bigbud and ak97



ak early buds



My ak i harvest from august to septemper My xmas was done late juli she was allso from may but in my plot where i tie her down.

I start vegging in Jan under 24 hour light, then put them out the first warm streak, it was mid-march this year (I'm in so cal)
They start showing sex within the first 2 weeks, and I harvested in June--
I have some probs with them trying to flip back to veg in late flower, but it is a bonus harvest anyways--

I think some of you guys put your plants out too early and that is the problem in a nutshell. Start your plants inside and don't plant them outside until after June 1st. Putting pot plants out in April and early May slows them down for awhile. If you have 3 week old seedlings and put them out after June 1 they will take right off and get big (if it is in their genes). They won't get as big as 3 month old plants put out after June 1 but they get big.

Stop putting anything out before June 1. In fact I put most of my stuff outside after June 15. The biggest thing to me is having the indoor lights on 16 hrs and off 8 hrs. Because in June there is 15 hours of daylight and when you stick them out it won't trigger them or slow them down trying to keep vegging. If you do 24 hrs light and stick them out you will slow them down for 3 weeks or so until they start vegging properly again.

This is what I get...10-12 foot monsters



I am positive about what I speak on this subject. I have been at it a long time.
















16/8 indoor lighting and transplant outdoors after June 1 and closer to June 15. Then you will consistently get monsters.

I'm not talking against what kmk does. He is doing and early harvest technigue. That's is totally different and way cool. I have been meaning to give that a go one year.

kallenavndk you post up some really good grow pics guy. You don't have to change a thing because you have it going on. Those are real nice and they are potted. If you grew in the ground you might have the biggest plants on the net.

I have had great respect for your skills all season.

this has me rethining some of my techniques.

the summer solstice is the same for all of us on our respective sides of the equator, but the length of daylight varies greatly the farther away from it you get. I wonder what the tipping point is in terms of hours of light/daylength change, to affect seedlings, clones, prestarts negativley?

anyone ever take cutting off an outdoor plant , root them and replant outside again, and what were the results?

I'm @ 45N, I usually start indoors in mid/late april, with lights at 16.5 hours, which matches the longest day with twilight in my area.

seedlings are usually 30-40 days old and about 12" tall, I start in and leave in 1/2 gallon containers and the plants are just getting roots into all the dirt,but not what I would call rootbound.

I plant outdoors,after a week of hardening off, around june 1st,1 plant to each large(15-20gal) hole predug.
my thought are this way I'm working with know quantities,all in identical states and conditions.being 12", they would be stronger against the pests and elements.

only problem is I'm wasting time and energy on males, I like to make seeds and have many to chose from , but I dont need 10-20 around.

this year I've been thinking of pregrowing, cloning, then sexing clones(not the seedlings), and perhaps clone more females. sorting males to a seperate plot to observe them for the year and choose the 2 best for breeding, take clones of those and keep 2 as father plants.
from that point I could keep doing this minus the males, just put out 1-2 male clones each year for seed production, while planting out only females.

are there some drawbacks to this plan?

Ickis... what strain/s is that???

Ickis has an awesome outdoor thread in the Grindhouse forum.. lots o pix

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=91929

Sorry for replying for Ickis, but there are some bad ass shots in there. Worth a look.

-dh