B
bonecarver_OG
hahahaha lol 
that davy crocket hat is just pimpin
that davy crocket hat is just pimpin
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Purple haze and Alcapulco Gold? WTF?
- Thread starter geetardude
- Start date
LOL haha!
haha!
G
Guest
mindRubber said:
I scored this shit regular before i started growing about 8 years ago.......along with a very nice juicy fruit which i thinks HDF conected.
awesome info guys........im sure theres a selective pheno bloomed from root that gives quality herb, high yeild on the shorter end of bloom times, id love to get my hands on an uncomplicated version
bests h&p
Hmm, now that I think of it, last winter my friend had a crop of Ak47 and one of the plants turned really groovy golden in the end, by itself, no voodoo or anything. The other plants were lime green to dark green and they all got the same stuff, wasnt even flushing when it started. So I guess that some plants just do it. I had a few nice pics of the AG we got from Zihuatanejo but they are gone now, first from here when I had to go underground for a sec and then when OG went down, dont have any backups..
but it was sweet, kinda earthy & spicy and beautiful golden/yellow/brown color. And some of the old skunks people grew here in the 80's went that way too..
The other plants were lime green to dark green and they all got the same stuff, wasnt even flushing when it started. So I guess that some plants just do it. I had a few nice pics of the AG we got from Zihuatanejo but they are gone now, first from here when I had to go underground for a sec and then when OG went down, dont have any backups.. but it was sweet, kinda earthy & spicy and beautiful golden/yellow/brown color. And some of the old skunks people grew here in the 80's went that way too..
G
Guest
Farmer John said:
I can only recommend the pure buddy
.....awersome strain that smells like babysick ......up with the cheese imhoreg h&p
yeah Ive smoked and grown a lot of the so called vintage skunk that Cheese is what we had here was a total roadkill pheno a HUGE yielder the old guys had it for years...Cheese is a sweet skunk, not roadkill at all, roadkill is what I love.
oh yeah, I think it was bought (not by me lol) in 86 or 87 cant remember so if it was alive, we would be having 20th bday, woohoo, the mother plant lived for a decade or so.
Oh yea littleman, thats exactly what I am talking about, it takes at least 1000 females and 1000 males (I think this has been talked over in another thread by Skunkman and others cant remember) to even try to preserve everything thats in there, otherwise you are making inbred lines of somekind, narrowing the unwanted traits away from the genes that in nature would sure as hell stick in there for some reason like worlds end or something like that, dont know if you got me wrong but thats what I was talking about, work too hard for a man to do but nature does it quite nicely eh?
what we had here was a total roadkill pheno a HUGE yielder the old guys had it for years...Cheese is a sweet skunk, not roadkill at all, roadkill is what I love. oh yeah, I think it was bought (not by me lol) in 86 or 87 cant remember so if it was alive, we would be having 20th bday, woohoo, the mother plant lived for a decade or so.
Oh yea littleman, thats exactly what I am talking about, it takes at least 1000 females and 1000 males (I think this has been talked over in another thread by Skunkman and others cant remember) to even try to preserve everything thats in there, otherwise you are making inbred lines of somekind, narrowing the unwanted traits away from the genes that in nature would sure as hell stick in there for some reason like worlds end or something like that, dont know if you got me wrong but thats what I was talking about, work too hard for a man to do but nature does it quite nicely eh?
Last edited:
G
Guest
cheese is sweet unless you give it the correct cure time of at least 2 months, gets a little darker then 
Damn OG..what a load of great pics lost...
Yeah. Oh yeah and weeman, bad link, fix it and I'll read it.
Yeah. Oh yeah and weeman, bad link, fix it and I'll read it.
Last edited:
G
Guest
Farmer John said:
well i gotta agree with ya there bruv
,,,ill try recapture some of my humble attempts off the old hard drive
G
Guest
Farmer John said:Oh yea littleman, thats exactly what I am talking about, it takes at least 1000 females and 1000 males (I think this has been talked over in another thread by Skunkman and others cant remember) to even try to preserve everything thats in there, otherwise you are making inbred lines of somekind, narrowing the unwanted traits away from the genes that in nature would sure as hell stick in there for some reason like worlds end or something like that, dont know if you got me wrong but thats what I was talking about, work too hard for a man to do but nature does it quite nicely eh?
Hello Farmer John
Yes it is too hard when the strain is naturally diverse. When the strain is diverse with more than 50 rare alleles to preserve, even 2000 individuals are not sufficient to avoid genetic drift. It is true for wild cannabis which is often not really potent.
I see you are a farmer
Do you believe that you (as farmer) prefer to grow wild strains, very diverse and hard to predict or do you believe that they prefer strains that show uniformity and constant production so that they can predict how much they will earn from this crop?In other words, do you believe that farmers do open pollination in their field , trying to preserve random effect on their grow or do you think they select at each generation the best parents to produce the new generation in order to have a better product to sell and make more money next time?
I believe that they select, because in fact, that is what human did with almost all the species he used to grow himself.
So now, what is the consequence of this behaviour? The strain so called landraces or native cultivars, [which are what we are chasing, I think; I personnally am not interested in the wild Acapulco strain that grows naturally in the area, I want the Acapulco gold that was called like this by the farmers, produced and selected by themselves for decennias for pot production purpose], they are most likely to be inbred.
And this is what you observe when you grow farmer strains. When you grow a Thai that was in the family since more than 20 years (although they have disappeared
), the strain is very uniform. For sure, if you take a strain of mriko, that he obtained in the field, a strain that could have been pollinated by all strains of the valley where he collected the strain, yes you'll have your diversity, with individual being purple, other not, some more producing than others with different bud shapes and finally some individuals being more or less potent.
What is wrong is these discussions is that people are discussing the preservation of landraces as if they were natural and so they apply the basic concept of maintaining the highest diversity as possible. But although this is very true when you have to keep native population alive, like wild cats or wild plant species, it is not the good way when you are dealing with plant that have been selected for centuries.
There is really two levels for this kind of discussion.
If Sam and the others are talking about ruderal landraces, those ones that grow naturally in areas of the world, I agree with them. You need huge numbers to preserve them.
If you are searching for a special strain from the past that disappeared, like the Panama red, for example, then I disagree. You don't need to grow 1000 individuals to preserve a Panama red that has been selected for decennias, it is simply a non sense [unless you can prove me this strain is genetically speaking very diverse (and I doubt this from my experience)] because it is a drug strain that has been worked to make it what it is now.
I think people are searching for old school strains that have been bred according to the particular conditions of these areas (the sweet spots of DJ Short). I respect a lot the people asking for total conservation with 1000 individuals.
However, I think the first step for us, drug users, is to take back the old school strains that were captured and used as breeding stock by the early breeders and make them available again for the community. Because these parental strains, as you know, they are called P1 because they are homozygous for many traits, so that when you cross them together you're sure to obtain nice F1. If they are homozygous for many traits, it means that they can be preserved more easily and more important: it means that one day, people could be independant from the seed business, producing their own good seeds without having to buy polyhybrid for high dollars, unless they want to grow for commercial purpose themselves.
For me, what we have here is a start of a similar fight as with Monsanto and others for the other species: they want to keep the parental strains for their business, and some people a contrario try to share these parental lines with the community because they think it is a common right to have access to these lines for free.
By saying that old school farmer strains need 2000 individuals to be correctly preserved, you know in which direction it is oriented
This number may be correct in some cases as mentionned above, but I think for most old school cultivars, when carefully selected by farmers, it is not true. I let you the conclusion about why such people may be saying that.
Last edited:
Excellent post little_man 
I agree with you that if we want to preserve wild & truly rural strain, we must use thousands of plants to do it and even then, there could be traits that wouldnt show in the offspring...
However, when talking about pure Haze (for example..) originating in 60/70´s and we are after preserving as much genetic diversity as possible, we should use as much different parents as possible in a open pollunation. However, if we are after some specified trait, psychedelic high or purple color, the pollunation type changes dramatically and we only use those parent plants that show that desired trait, right?
If we found some interesting, but wild & rural strain from somewhere of this globe and we want to explore all the genetics this strain can offer to us, we should collect & grow thousand of seeds for future selections to truly reveal all the trait this strain can offer us!
When talking about landraces we should define are we talking about wild strain, or strain that has been cultivated & selected years for drug use, but has been acclimatized in it´s enviroment.
What you guys think, if we take Acapulco Gold for example and let it go wild (and manage to do it), how many generations it will take to lose it´s pike potential generally? Of course there is going to be elite inviduals, but I think many of them will lose the trademark Acapulco Gold high...
Or does the nature even improve strains when let go rural & wild? Maybe in some cases, but I would say it´s very rare..
Just my
I agree with you that if we want to preserve wild & truly rural strain, we must use thousands of plants to do it and even then, there could be traits that wouldnt show in the offspring...
However, when talking about pure Haze (for example..) originating in 60/70´s and we are after preserving as much genetic diversity as possible, we should use as much different parents as possible in a open pollunation. However, if we are after some specified trait, psychedelic high or purple color, the pollunation type changes dramatically and we only use those parent plants that show that desired trait, right?
If we found some interesting, but wild & rural strain from somewhere of this globe and we want to explore all the genetics this strain can offer to us, we should collect & grow thousand of seeds for future selections to truly reveal all the trait this strain can offer us!
When talking about landraces we should define are we talking about wild strain, or strain that has been cultivated & selected years for drug use, but has been acclimatized in it´s enviroment.
What you guys think, if we take Acapulco Gold for example and let it go wild (and manage to do it), how many generations it will take to lose it´s pike potential generally? Of course there is going to be elite inviduals, but I think many of them will lose the trademark Acapulco Gold high...
Or does the nature even improve strains when let go rural & wild? Maybe in some cases, but I would say it´s very rare..
Just my
G
Guest
Hello Herbalistic
Yes right. I don't know much about OT1 haze, I'm not into this story But from what I read here and there, it is a polyhybrid with multiple phenos. In this case, it is very different from preserving a rare old cultivar line that has been inbred for decennias.
I don't know what the preservationnist friends did with this strain. But let's do some science fiction:
I suppose they adopted a double strategy: make a first grow with as many seeds as possible, take cuttings of all individuals and open pollinate all first, producing via this way a basic stock with the highest diversity possible, in case of trouble in the next steps.
Then I suppose they may have tested the results of this first grow and selected the best individuals with some criteria in mind (purple color or type of high or anything they found interesting) and they may have reproduced selected individuals.
Then they may have studied the progeny to see of what these cuttings were made off, trying to distinguish the genes hidden behind the recessive and dominant traits they observed in this progeny.
Then lastly, I think they may have decide what they could keep in a true breeding population, regarding to number of genes to preserve and their allelic frequency.
The quality of all this work would be evaluated according to :
- diversity of the strain when they started
- number of individuals grown at first
- number of individuals grown in the progeny to learn more
In this way, a purple haze sold should be a particular pheno of the OT1 Haze that has been identified, selected, inbred with for example a purple OT1 Haze male if available and with its progeny carefully studied to learn more about why this pheno appeared and how it is transmitted to the descendance. Optimally, the sub-strain is worked so that the purple trait is brought to homozygous state and in this way, the consumer is happy because all his individuals will turn purple.
In some case, if this inbred process may product an inbreeding depression, for example if other genes linked with the purple genes are deleterious when homozygous. There, you may have to outcross the line with another color pheno, to restore these other genes and then you have to work again the strain for the purple color.
I'd say the same, so even my opinion doesn't value more than yours, we are at 4 cents now !
Herbalistic said:
Yes right. I don't know much about OT1 haze, I'm not into this story
But from what I read here and there, it is a polyhybrid with multiple phenos. In this case, it is very different from preserving a rare old cultivar line that has been inbred for decennias.I don't know what the preservationnist friends did with this strain. But let's do some science fiction:
I suppose they adopted a double strategy: make a first grow with as many seeds as possible, take cuttings of all individuals and open pollinate all first, producing via this way a basic stock with the highest diversity possible, in case of trouble in the next steps.
Then I suppose they may have tested the results of this first grow and selected the best individuals with some criteria in mind (purple color or type of high or anything they found interesting) and they may have reproduced selected individuals.
Then they may have studied the progeny to see of what these cuttings were made off, trying to distinguish the genes hidden behind the recessive and dominant traits they observed in this progeny.
Then lastly, I think they may have decide what they could keep in a true breeding population, regarding to number of genes to preserve and their allelic frequency.
The quality of all this work would be evaluated according to :
- diversity of the strain when they started
- number of individuals grown at first
- number of individuals grown in the progeny to learn more
In this way, a purple haze sold should be a particular pheno of the OT1 Haze that has been identified, selected, inbred with for example a purple OT1 Haze male if available and with its progeny carefully studied to learn more about why this pheno appeared and how it is transmitted to the descendance. Optimally, the sub-strain is worked so that the purple trait is brought to homozygous state and in this way, the consumer is happy because all his individuals will turn purple.
In some case, if this inbred process may product an inbreeding depression, for example if other genes linked with the purple genes are deleterious when homozygous. There, you may have to outcross the line with another color pheno, to restore these other genes and then you have to work again the strain for the purple color.
Herbalistic said:Or does the nature even improve strains when let go rural & wild? Maybe in some cases, but I would say it´s very rare..
Just my
I'd say the same, so even my opinion doesn't value more than yours, we are at 4 cents now !
Last edited:
G
Guest
couple shots of OT1s Haze, 4 weeks in flower now, from 6 inch cuts. 7 plants goin, and havent showed sex yet. not to much difference in the plants besides the last shot there. plant has a thicker finger, and is short and squat compared to the others.
there under 11/13, and been off to the side. there in small pots as im hopein to slow the stretch some. dont seem to be real stretchy at this point. will upcan in the commin weeks.
CBF
there under 11/13, and been off to the side. there in small pots as im hopein to slow the stretch some. dont seem to be real stretchy at this point. will upcan in the commin weeks.
CBF
Little man, I was and am talking about the genetic preservation projects going on, not my own and lol, actaually im a psychonaut not a farmer and I just like to grow plants, Farmer John is my nick...not talking science here but if people talk about preserving those valuable genetics it means that everything i nthere should be presreved, otherwise you inbreed the line somehow, thats all. So you have a big preservation project going on or just math? That farmer point is a good one, if I was to grow a field of cannabis I'd love to see a uniform crop, but that is not preservation of the genes thats just growing somwething that is already worked top some point where there isnt much variation eh? Anyhoo, I think you got my point a bit wrong, anyhoo have a great day. What I am saying is: WHO THE FUCK HAS GUTS TO GROW 1000'S OF PLANTS JUST TO SAVE SOME LANDRACE GENETICS IN ALL ITS DIVERSITY?
G
Guest
wow very nice FJ, plants gettin with it.
what size lamp you usin FJ? damn you can grow them sallies cant wait to see that cola filled in.
im tryin the less is more with oldtimers haze this go. easy on the nutes.
CBF
what size lamp you usin FJ? damn you can grow them sallies
cant wait to see that cola filled in.im tryin the less is more with oldtimers haze this go. easy on the nutes.
CBF
And I did say that the farmer and his family who grow this "Acapulco Gold" in Guerrero always selcts only the seeds from the best plants so he and his family do selection and have been doing it long before we were born, marijuana cultivation has its roots deep in there...oh yeah and shit plants are always sold to silly tourists and I kinda believe him when he says that Acapulco Gold is a american name for the marijuana they grow around that region...they call it marijuana not Guerrero Green or anything...
and I kinda believe him when he says that Acapulco Gold is a american name for the marijuana they grow around that region...they call it marijuana not Guerrero Green or anything...
G
Guest
Farmer John said:Little man, I was and am talking about the genetic preservation projects going on, not my own and lol, actaually im a psychonaut not a farmer and I just like to grow plants, Farmer John is my nick...not talking science here but if people talk about preserving those valuable genetics it means that everything i nthere should be presreved, otherwise you inbreed the line somehow, thats all. So you have a big preservation project going on or just math? That farmer point is a good one, if I was to grow a field of cannabis I'd love to see a uniform crop, but that is not preservation of the genes thats just growing somwething that is already worked top some point where there isnt much variation eh? Anyhoo, I think you got my point a bit wrong, anyhoo have a great day. What I am saying is: WHO THE FUCK HAS GUTS TO GROW 1000'S OF PLANTS JUST TO SAVE SOME LANDRACE GENETICS IN ALL ITS DIVERSITY?
Hehehe ok let's keep it simple so:
Farmer John said:What I am saying is: WHO THE FUCK HAS GUTS TO GROW 1000'S OF PLANTS JUST TO SAVE SOME LANDRACE GENETICS IN ALL ITS DIVERSITY?
not me unless you prove me that it will be successful to do so, with concrete arguments which are number of genes involved, allele frequencies, grow conditions fitting perfectly the native conditions of the plant for example
Farmer John said:
Big is not the term, but to preserve some old school strains (but inbred so they do not interest the real preservationnists :wink
, I use maths to know in my projects what is necessary to do and what is not necessary according to what I have in hands.Well I think I knew it, I was just joking for the example :wink:
Have a great day too
Sorry I'm a bit late I've been really busy moving and I hope I'm not altering the course of the very informative conversation between Little Man and Farmer John.
I just wanted to say that I have immense respect for Charlie, Hhf, Ogbub, Raco and La Mano Negra. I've personally learned much from all of you and I know that all of you value the cannabis species much more than your own ego and money. Even if we choose not to work together I hope that we can use this bit of competitive drive to do better work and and keep our community and the genepool in the forefront of our thoughts and ahead of any rivalry or anger.
I just wanted to say that I have immense respect for Charlie, Hhf, Ogbub, Raco and La Mano Negra. I've personally learned much from all of you and I know that all of you value the cannabis species much more than your own ego and money. Even if we choose not to work together I hope that we can use this bit of competitive drive to do better work and and keep our community and the genepool in the forefront of our thoughts and ahead of any rivalry or anger.
