CHINESE archaeological hemp?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

Crazy Composer said:
Moses was an Egyptian shaman. He would have used cannabis as surely as he would have used other resins indigenous to the region, like frankincense and myhrr. If Moses was like other shaman of his time, he carried a special tent just for burning these resins and clambaking in the smoke... to commune with God. I can't believe you don't know this stuff.

Here's some interesting reading for you. I have read this kind of thing over and over and over for many years. I can't believe you haven't read any of this, Sam. Seems to me, someone like you ought to know as much as possible about this herb's historical uses. I guess we can all learn more than we currently know, eh?

Crazy Composer,
I am very familiar with so called references you posted, the only problem is they are not facts they are speculation. I have Chris's book, "Green Gold the Tree of Life: Marijuana in Magic & Religion", he gave me a signed copy when it first came out. One thing to say that Cannabis was known in ancient Israel and quite another to say that Moses was smoking Cannabis, Jesus was rubbing Cannabis on his skin to get high, (even though THC in oil does not even pass the skin barrier) and Solomon's grave was full of stash even though Solomon's grave has not even been found. As well as Adam and Eve taking Cannabis, give me a break, where is any proof other then from Cannabis Culture and Chris Bennet, who are not exactly know for their Academic standards in judging facts from myths.
I understand why you would like to believe this, but where is the science? You are basically saying it could of been, so it must of happened...
To me there is a big difference in what could of happened and what has been proved to of happened, if you can't understand the difference, what can I say?

-SamS

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

Oh, BTW, Solomon was still naked when he woke up under the cart in the market.

He was naked so he could be thoroughly lathered by the Kaneh Bosm oil.

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

Are you so sure that an oil with THC would even pass the skin barrier? Do you have any proof?
I did a bunch of research with THC in oil on the skin, believe me it don't get you high. Have you even ever tried it? I did.
Can you tell me where Solomon's grave with all the Cannabis is located?
Answer these questions before you presume that all ancient peoples were using Cannabis like you claim.

-SamS

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

Chris didn't make this stuff up. He gives plenty of references, does he not?

You are not getting the point with the Adam and Eve reference. I suppose if you actually believe in that story as written and re-written and re-written by tribesmen, then the apostles, then by the Council of Nicea, then by King James, and who knows who els, then yeah, I can see why it's insulting to suggest the story of Adam and Eve may be a simple reference to the beginning of human consciousness. But I, for one, do not believe the bible as we read it today. It's entirely conceivable to me that the Adam and Eve story started as an explanation of the beginning of human conscience, NOT the beginning of humans as a species. SO yeah, I believe humans may have used mind expanding drugs to make the leap from surviving to thriving. Why not? Really... why not? If you can remember the first year when you used to get high, if you could feel that way again, you'd probably be more inclined to agree.

It is popular to try and discredit ideas like these. So let's play another game... why doesn't someone step forward with proof to the contrary? Anyone? I can tell you one thing... there's more evidence that such things were commonplace, than there is evidence that it never happened.

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

Sure Chris gives references, but he interprets the "facts" to fit his own conclusions.
He also says that Cannabis was in the Americas pre-Columbus, but no archaeological findings of Cannabis pre-Columbian has ever been found in the Americas, not even pollen in lakes etc. like elsewhere in the world, why not?
How can I prove that Cannabis was not used, this is absurd. I can not prove that Cannabis was not brought to earth by the Space Bros., but I am not waiting for them to return and bring me some more. That is, it is difficult to prove that something does not exist.
To me it seems your mind is made up and nothing is going to change it. My mind is made up until I see proof to the otherwise, something you have not done at all. Do you even have Chris's book? I do, I have read the whole book, and liked a lot of it. But I don't believe the parts that have no real proof...
I have no faith in any religion or Dogma, Zero...
I like proof and facts. Anything else is Faith, something you seem to have a lot of.

-SamS

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

Okay, Sam... I admit I was wrong about Solomon's grave... The reference was that cannabis grew on TOP of Solomon's grave, not found IN his grave. I mixed up the discovery of his temple with the discovery of his grave. Sorry. But that does nothing to take away from the probability that moses used cannabis as just another herb in his bag of tricks. If you were a shaman in that time, in that place, would you ignore cannabis?

As for the cannabis oil getting through the skin... Here's the recipe from the Old Testament. from EXODUS 30:22-33

THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES, "TAKE THE FOLLOWING FINE SPICES: 500 SHEKELS OF LIQUID MYRRH, HALF AS MUCH OF FRAGRANT CINNAMON, 250 SHEKELS OF KANNABOSM, 500 SHEKELS OF CASSIA - ALL ACCORDING TO THE SANCTUARY SHEKEL - AND A HIND OF OLIVE OIL. MAKE THESE INTO MAKE THESE INTO A SACRED ANNOITING OIL, A FRAGRANT BLEND, THE WORK OF A PERFUMER. IT WILL BE THE SACRED ANNOITING OIL.

All I ask of you, Sam, is to make this oil and see if the combination has any ability to get through the skin. It makes sense that the resins, dissolved into the oil, and combined with the other ingredients might have the desired effect. We'll never know until we try it.

The resin on the skin alone, well of course that's not going to work! The oil itself may not work, and maybe Jesus didn't trip balls from what he had smeared on him at the baptism. Even if the oil was only used as an antiviral, or antibacterial, it WAS used in those times.

Do you still believe Moses saw God, and talked to an actual burning bush, or could a 6000 year old story possibly be a little different by the time it got to us?

I DO fully believe that Moses would have thought nothing of using mind altering substances to attain visions.

I DO fully believe mind altering substances may very well have been at least partially responsible for the awakening of mankind to a world greater than mere survival. As the Adam and Eve story suggests, they ate from the forbidden fruit, which made them aware for the first time, that they were naked. The fruit cursed them with self-awareness. Sounds like a mind-altering experience to me.

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

Crazy Composer,
WHERE IS SOLOMONS TOMB? With the Cannabis growing on top?

-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

No I do not believe that Moses saw God.
I do not believe in God.
I already have made hash and oil ointments for topical application, they did not get me stoned at all. Have you tried it? You are the one saying they work.
Read the whole book, make some hash and oil topical and try it. Then say what you think is true, based on personal experience rather then what sounds like maybe it could of happened in someone's dreams..

-SamS

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

We're just having fun here, right, Sam? I thought we were anyway.

Funny, the wife thinks I don't have enough faith. What you don't understand (not knowing anything about me), is that I find this to be a fun discourse on possibilities, not faith.

I won't go as far as to accuse you of having too little faith, or too much, that wouldn't be nice or appropriate in the least, would it? Hell, I don't know you any more than you know me, so yes, that would be entirely inappropriate of me, and against my nature.

It was funny to post a change of mind, and see that you had just said it appears nothing would change my mind.

But when you guess what a stranger is like, it's easy to be mistaken.

I really enjoy spirited discussions, and enjoy even more when I'm wrong about something because in the end a new, more accurate understanding can be had. However, personalized digs begin to throw the balance of clean conversation off to the negative side. Maybe you will agree, and make sure we stay on topic, not imagine negative personal traits in strangers?

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

What was your preparation? I've had PLENTY of cannabis-infused oils on my skin... never got stoned, like you, but obviously my own experience wasn't enough to deter me from believing some other preparation would not work. I wouldn't assume that my experiences are proof enough to discount all preparations. But that's just me.

The reference to Solomon's grave is purely fictional. I made a mistake in believing it was a historical reference. It's a misconception I have apparently had for many years.

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

No problems with discussing possibilities, but then they should be stated as such, not as facts. I also am interested in a wide range of Cannabis subjects, that is why I knew that Solomon's grave has not been discovered, as well as me trying 10 grams of FMCD in olive oil on my skin in an attempt to get me high, with no luck at all. But I did try.
Don't feel bad about Solomon, and don't waste your time trying to discuss the fact that Solomon's grave has not been found with Rastas, they know it has, it is mentioned in hundreds of songs.....

-SamS

'I believe what I see, not what I would like to see.'

Farmer John · Sep 15, 2008

Im pretty sure it was the space bros...

and am pretty sure that the people of lapland, the saame people (saamelaiset) and other nothern tribes were among the first people to use amanita mushrooms for shamanistic rituals or just simply to get high, pretty much the same thing going on here at the moment haha, only that here in southern finland we have lots of psilocybe mushrooms, many species and it's only northern finland/sweden/norway/russia where they use amanitas because lack of anything else and this is a fact, of course there can be found species of psilocybe etc mushrooms but most that the northern folks eat are amanitas, and very little of that has anything to do with xmas or santa claus, all the xmas nonsense comes from german traditions and the fact that its Jesus's birthday. Btw, excellent read this thread, took me hours.

Oh yeah and also reindeer eat amanita and if youre wise you drink the pee like the shamans in lapland did...and still do..

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 15, 2008

I tried Amanita's and can't find much to recommend them to anyone, they do make you dream and have blurry vision, but they are not a true psychedelic like LSD. They are more like a PCP or a cheap ketamine, which gets you dis-associated not high.

-SamS

Farmer John · Sep 15, 2008

That is true Sam, I think that the word delirium pretty much explains the feeling you get of them, definately not a true psychedelic, tried them a few times, dried and fresh, and didnt really like the feeling, but thinking it's almost the most common mushroom that can be found here I understand why they use it, theres nothing else out there unless you make moonshine, and thats what the saame people like very, very much. Thats just where our santa claus and other myths come from, like people believe that the northern lights are made by a giant fox sweeping it's tail across the universe. And hell, Santa lives here.

Crazy Composer · Sep 15, 2008

Right, I thought about why I was convinced the grave was found... I had an old rasta friend who would tell me about Solomon's grave like it was fact. It WAS a case of wanting to believe something. Hook line and sinker, more like.

Now I wonder what else he told me that isn't fact.

FJ, here's a link to what I was talking about with regard to Xmas and Amanitas:
http://www.rutajit.com/christmas.html

Although, it may have been put together by rastas, so who knows! hehehe

hardhat22 · Sep 15, 2008

According to the following poster,cannabis and soma was introduced into China by the Amazons by at least 4000 years before present.I would also like to understand more about the Siberian center of diversity.

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/v...ys=0&postorder=asc&highlight=siberia&start=15

[Posted by daybrown] @Archaelogica.org
Gimbutas shows us some curious small square, 4 footed, goat headed bowls from the Lower Danube. 7000 BP. Cucuteni, Petresti, Vinca.

But then the Russians, excavating an Amazon grave in the permafrost, finds the same kind of bowl. Only this time, frozen for 2500 years, the contents are intact: cannabis.

IIRC, it was Herodotus who writes of the Scythians, from this same era, who made little tents, heated like saunas with hot rocks that they took pot into. Thus the feet on the bowls allows them to heat up more slowly and perch on a pile of hot rocks to vaporize the cannabanoids.

The other thing these suanas do is kill lice and bedbugs. If you are naked.

Gimbutas also shows us stone or modeled clay copies of Amanita Muscaria, and a really trippy large bronze mixing bowl that is also in the shape of an emerging Amanita muscaria. BTW: I found some in the woods 3 days ago. You havta let them *TOTALLY* dry out, so I wont be able to try them until the new moon.

So- 6000 years ago, some girls got on the first domestic horses, could ride faster than a warrior could run, and became the Amazons. By 4000 BP some of them made it all the way to China. Taking both Soma and dope with them. Meeting the purveyors of ephedra and opium. Musta been a high time.
_________________
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.
[End Quote]

I wonder just how far these people traveled after mixing with the Asian races...
Peace
Olmec Statuary

dkmonk · Sep 15, 2008

Sam, one thing you didn't out, at least to my reading, is that who knows if there was actually a jesus, moses, adam and eve. There are no 100% facts that prove this, that i have every wactched, read, or heard of. To me the bible is just merely a huge book of ancient fairy tales that are supposed to be read and enjoyed and take what you want from them, basically a mere nursery rhym.

If you look most of the bibles stories are taken from other religions, like ancient rome and pagan religions. The snake use to be a good, before christianity, in popular pagan religions at the time. then christians took the snake idol and demonized him in adam and eve.

Sam i know you say in your experience that resin oil wont produce any euphoric or high effects, but have you experienced any healing properties from oil. (on sunburns, scrapes, scars, scabs ect...)?????????

dkmonk

edit: Sam you also said cannabis not being found in America before pre columbus, but does that mean north america, central, south or all of them?
Do you believe the pangea theory?

John you say aminitas are more of a delirium and same said dissassiciated feeling, so would it be safe to say it is like DXM?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 16, 2008

I don't have much doubt that there was a person named Jesus, but it is obvious that all of the various prophets, and sons of the one true God, be they Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhists, Hindus, etc etc were wrong about God being only a Christian, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. They can't all be right. I think they were all wrong.... Man has a deep need to believe, and to think he knows who, or what is going on, so much so that if he could not find a god he will make one.

Sure I am sure that topical use of oil may help many ailments.

Pangea was the supercontinent that existed during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras about 250 million years ago, before the component continents were separated into their current configuration.
Sure I think the theory may be valid. But I doubt that Cannabis was around back then.
And yes I meant all of the America's.

Lets drop the subject of RELIGION, it can not be answered here and is not on subject.

-SamS

Farmer John · Sep 16, 2008

Hallelujahgobble!!!!!

Anyway, my friend is now travelling in asia and is about to go to Yunnan, I did ask him to collect as many seeds as he can, not just cannabis but all plants that look interesting, lets see what he finds and what spouts and what doesnt, sure will be interesting...so what are the chances to find a medicinal/drug variety of chinese cannabis or is it all more or less hemp that they grow/have growing in lets say Yunnan?

Sam_Skunkman · Sep 16, 2008

You will be lucky to find any hemp in Yunnan that is potent at all. Cannabis is grown all over Yunnan but it is hemp, with THC levels that are .1-2% THC. A waste of time for drug use.
I have grown thousands of Yunnan seeds and even found plants covered in resin, but very low in THC.

-SamS

CHINESE archaeological hemp?

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