2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

No mate, the resin build up was extreme from early on and I only gave them 2 shots of molasses in the end.

Going to scope out a cup winner big bud and a grapefruit plant, They`ve both produced well in both quantity and quality and they`ll be 3rd generation cuttings. I`m really looking for something good and fresh for the next grow and time is pressing on.

I`m thinking about taking the top shoots off a plant or two just to see if it changes things any, I`m not overly hopefull though to be honest.

Toke

Hey Toke,
I've read through your thread again & i dont see anything that you have done that would of caused this buddy! This leads me to the opinion that its just a pheno issue buddy! it looks like you have just really poor producing Pheno's man, im really sorry buddy but in this case GH Ripen is not the answer & wont help you im affraid. Yes you are correct on that issue, Ripen is used to help already formed buds to finish off that are behind others, ie, Sati's taking longer to Ripen & Finish than Indi's or to finish off a crop in a hurry for one reason or another, Mites, Rot or security issues etc! Im affraid your Buds just look Done man, which i really feel sorry for you dude, theres nothing you can do about Poor Producing/Yielding Pheno's. Why Did you select these paticular pheno's dude? where did you get them,? & are they from seed or cuts gifted to you, sorry but i dont remember what you said about that, anyways its certainly a pheno issue imo! You can gauge alot from the general health of the plant, its leaves tell us a hella of a lot about plant health & yours look really healthy im affraid. I honestly dont think its anything you have done, or your water or nutes etc, imo its just a poorly producing/yielding pheno issue, thats all i can think of. Ripen wont help your issues as your buds look done, the Pistils have receaded back into their Calyx and they have swollen, which is what Ripen will help to do & as your buds have already done this, they are ready. I'm sorry Toke but thats the story here by the looks of it & im sure you know this, it was worth asking others just incase there was something you could of done, but not in this case imvho! You've cracked your feed issues, next its just a case of finding a good keeper mum & taking cuts before you flower out. Im a little stoned so i hope ive made some sense and helped you put things into perspective bro! Back to the drawing board & i know you'll nail it next time, you've just been really unlucky with pheno selection imo bro! till next time.
Peace & Respect!...........Scroger! G'Luck

Hey Scroger, yeah the reason I`m questioning the pheno thing is that the same stock produced 4oz per plant in the first growtent sgrog, 5 per plant this last go, just over 4 per plant in another mates grow and a whopping 8 oz per plant in another friend`s grow. All the cuttings were produced by me and were all struggling to some extent when they left my grow cupboard, showing def signs etc. (That`s all cured up now I`m on RO water). I`ve always had issues with them though, def/lockout issues, and though I think the water quality has had a big part to play in things, I will be glad to see the back of them.

Sadly the plants I looked at aren`t ready to take cuttings from, the mate who has them has been off the rails for a week or so and neglected them, I`m seeing about bringing them to mine and nursing them back, as I know the stock they came from are A1.

My plants went through a very slow growing long veg period due to some pretty extreme def/lockouts, changed to Ro water and things improved dramatically as I`m sure you`ll remember. Since then the plants have looked the picture of health, but produced very poorly. I can only assume that the early stress and damage has had a lasting affect on the plants abilities.

These plants didn`t all come from one plant, they were taken from 4 different plants, the ones that yielded 8oz per plant at that.

Doesn`t make things straight fwd to me, The cannabis plant is usually rezillient, I`ve seen so many in the past that have overcome some serious issues without a problem, its the first time I`ve experienced anything like this.

Toke

They`ve been on plain water flush for 3 days now and I`m looking to start chopping in a couple of days.

I`m thinking of chopping and hanging to dry with all but the big fan leaves left on the plant, and then pluck the buds from the dried colas, as They`re too tiny to trim all the individual buds. I dont like dry trimming as a rule, but on this occasion its going to make sense.

Toke

to me it looks like excess of N in late flowring and thats why the flower production has been smaller and the space between internodes have become larger.

it definetly is resinous, hope it makes a good smoke.

i wouldnt use ripen since it is not going to do anything to improve anything rather it will just tell the plants end flowering - but on cost of size, potency and such.

peace

Sorry to hear it didn't work out as you planned this time Toke mate. Best of luck with the next one! Keep me posted regarding a new thread or whatever dewd

Cheers Toke
Man, I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I've been there, it is maddening
I looked at your pics again, are you ABSOLUTELY sure they do not have a light source during dark period?! I would go in there and wait a view minutes for your eyes to adjust and double check. Anyhow, you probably already did check, just thought I mention it

Head up, there is always next time That's the beautiful thing about what we do ))

Peace,
Kind

Thanks guys for your thoughts, I know some of you will have been here, my grows have got progressively worse over 4 grows, and I thought I`d got on top of the problems by the end of the last grow only to find it was still an issue, so I switched to RO water and everything became healthy and then this.

Bones, do you really think the amount of Nitrogen could affect things this badly without showing burned tips? Its something I`ve been pondering as you know, just didn`t think it could be so devastating. I`ve known people over fert till the plant is yellowing badly and burned tips and still fair a lot better than this. I know you`ve said in your thread that too higher nutrient strength is one route to lower yields, or something to that effect, but this seems so extreme for healthy looking plants, too healthy a look, due to too much N perhaps.

Hey Shhh, thanks and yeah I`ll start up a fresh thread soon enough and let ya know buddy.

Hey Kind, no mate I`ve been in that room and really checked, I did have one red light on a fan switch glowing, but it was well to one side and beneath the canopy and at worst could only affect one or two plants nearby. If it was a consistent and significant light leak, I`d certainly be aware and I reckon I`d expect to see some veg growth (?), but there has just been no growth at all for weeks, just slight swelling. Yeah I`ll get my head up once its stopped bouncing off the ground a few times. I feel a bit ground down to say the least mate, 4th unsuccessful crop, the last 3 yielded around 50% of what they should`ve done and then this one is a total failure.

I took a bud from a plant today that should be a good medium sized nug and this is the result guys, its pitiful, I cant expect to get anything but scrappy percy from this grow, and I`m now contemplating selling off some cherished musical items to finance the next grow, life can certainly turn round and bite you in the arse at times.






All this leaf came from just that one bud, the paper is A4






If this is too much N, how does anyone but the most knowlegeable get bye, they all recommend using shitloads of product, whether its Canna or the Cal/Mg supplements (that generally have 2% N in them). Most people seem to be able to get on even with using these things at full strength, something I never do. It seems odd it should affect my plants so adversely.

Regards all, Toke

N!?

N!?

I think the leaves on your plants indicate a healthy level of N. Leaf colour looks the right shade of green with no signs of toxidity. Going into bloom without enough N will reduce yields as we know. So although too much N maybe one answer i am not convinced this is the problem here. Did i hear you say there are some/one L.E.D lights on hardware around your room? Whoops, that aint good buddy & this is most certainly another possible cause imvho! I know you think it was'nt the cause but its possible, some plants are more light sensitive than others, but 1 LED under the canopy, could this be enough to cause unusual symptoms in a strain, i'd have to say 'Maybe'. Are you 100% sure there were No others (LED'S) in the room at all? I always cover those with several layers of Gaffa tape or the like,-Problem'Solved! I have had a crop stall at the Bloom cycle because of multiple LED's beaming out of hardware in the room, i quickly realised and covered them up with no Pistil action after 3 weeks!. I would not just Bin the idea, its another possible cause to consider anyway. Stay Strong Man. Peace.......Scroger

Well the red switch light that was showing had some tape over but perhaps not enough, but this was down the side of one tank and could only have affected one or two plants in the whole crop. I dont think this is going to be significant really mate as the set-up hasn`t changed for the last 4 grows.

If this is part of the reason tho do you think they could take off again, and finish flowering with the right nutes etc.? I`m guessing not.

Toke

No buddy i just cant see it, I feel for your loss bro!. They do look like they never fully got out of Veg if you can see what i mean. Alot of leaf etc. It sounds unlikely that the LED's were the cause then if you had them covered with tape to some extent. but its possible!. I hope you get to the bottom of things dude, we'll keep watching to see what you come up with! G'Luck!
Peace......Scroger!

I`ve started to have a chop at some of it and trying to work out if its worth trimming it. I reckon it`ll probably be worth rough trimming it to get the bulk of the leaf off as there is so much leaf I`d be concerned about mold striking, that along with the fact that each bud produces so much resin drenched trim, loads of that and as sticky as!

I`ll have some fine cookies and BHO to look fwd to at least. The bud is also highly (doh!) resinous and despite the size of the nugs, it should provide me with enough decent smoke.

I`ve grown this strain a few times now but I`ve never smelt anything near as strong as these when you start to chop them. . . . ferkin reeks, almost as if its smouldering on fire, its so intense, I`m glad I found out about the dodgy carbon filter before this stage, I just hope the new one is coping with it. It should be fine, I`m hanging the bud outside the room in the hallway, the air from the hallway is being sucked into the growroom passively. If the strength of the smell is anything to go by the smoke will be amazing! Lets hope so, at least it`d be somewhat of a consolation prize if its a knockout smoke.

Only thing I find with the strong smelling strains like cheese is that I reek of weed anywhere I go within half an hour of smoking a spliff, and unless yer bit of percy is tightly sealed in a tin the smell seep out of yer clothes all the time. Bho is much more stealthy, until you try skinning up under a pub bench!



here, the pile of leaf in the middle all has good resin/tric`s content and is all from the one bud shown. The fan leaf around the outside is probably going to be worth putting through the ice treatment for hash as there is a fair amount of tric`s there too




I`m obviously gutted about how things have turned out here, but its no good staying in a hole when life is otherwise good generally. . . . but f**k`s sake its gotta work out this time or, or, or, or, or, or,

This grow did suffer really badly during the whole of veg, extended veg period because of very slow growth etc., then changed to RO water and all looked good and healthy, but they didn`t produce and seemed f**ked up.

I`m letting it go this time, they did suffer so things were far from ideal for a good grow.

This time though, they have no excuses, and neither do I! They`ll be on RO water with a thoughtful plan of nutrients, making sure they dont get too much of anything and that they get enough of everything.

I`ve got 16 cuttings that were taken 2 days ago for me from a guy I know, he heard about my plight and got to work. He has consistently good grows from these, both in yield and quality, but he doesn`t know what they are called at all.





They came in rockwool cubes, I`m not a big fan of them, I prefer jiffy pucks, but they`d been in the cubes a couple of days when I got them so I didn`t like the idea of transplanting them.

They`d been put in with just plain water, I drppied a drip or two of Clonex rooting gel on the top of each cube by the stem and flushed it into the rockwool with a wee squirt of RO water from a pippet, popped them in the propagator put some speadermat over the top to shade them and put them under a 200w envirolight. Hopefully in 10 days or so they`ll be showing roots and they`ll be potted into plastic beer cups and placed under a metal halide.

The only problem here is that there are two different strains mixed up together here, and there`s no telling them apart. One finishes after 8 weeks and one wants 9-10. Their growth patterns are very much the same, ie. similar stretch and size, but I think this will stop me doing a scrog with this grow as it`d be a pain in the arse with upto two weeks difference in finishing. The advantage here is that I`ll save a good couple of weeks at least vegging and training the scrog out, being that I`ll be happy to harvest a crop asap after this last one. I`ll be back to the scrog for the next one though and have some simmering thoughts on a scrog this size with horizontals each side when the cooler months come again.

I`m hoping to get a few more cuttings taken in the next couple of days, from the big bud cup winner and Grapefruit mothers for some hopefully primo 3rd generation cuts, (they`re selected and proven). I`m only going top be able to get maybe 3 of each of these, but hey if I`m going to have to forgo the scrog method this time, I may as well make the most of it and get some mothers taken from 4 different strains, maybe 5 if I pop a couple of armageddon in and then make some decisions on what to go with in the scrog next time.

I may leave the Armageddon out of it to keep things simple, and see how they progress in my friend`s growtent.

So I`m staying positive guys, despite the huge disappointment, I`m getting my chin up and my head down (actually that`s really difficult!!).

By the time I`ve got clones ready to go into pots and under the MH`s I should have the remnants of this grow all cleared up, so no pauses, no gaps, straight on with the project!

I`ll finish this thread off with the final grizly details and let you know how it smokes, but I`ll soon be starting a new thread for this next grow and hope you`ll all drop and give some support through it.

Thanks for all your support on this thread, its been highly valued.

Toke ;-)

Thank god man! I really thought most of the bud looked like the first one you posted, glad to see there is some buds that look decent mate

Also sweet to see your 'on to the next one' too bro I think this one will be a good un for you mate... with the revised feed regime & RO water I think the only way is up!

BTW get your ass over to my grow man I aint see you post over there for ages

~Shhh~ said:

Thank god man! I really thought most of the bud looked like the first one you posted, glad to see there is some buds that look decent mate

Also sweet to see your 'on to the next one' too bro I think this one will be a good un for you mate... with the revised feed regime & RO water I think the only way is up!

BTW get your ass over to my grow man I aint see you post over there for ages

Click to expand...

Err. . . there is no, what you`d call presentable buds mate, once they`ve dried they`ll be pellets mate, even though that was one of the bigger ones, the pics are deceiving though, I`ll post a pic once dry, I think it`ll be more obvious what they`re like then.

Yeah on to the next one.

I did stop in your`s the other night but didn`t leave a message though. I`ll be in there again before long mate.

Toke

Hey guys, I injured myself recently and had to have a friend come over and water the plants, I`ve taken the tops off, but they`re still sitting it out as I await th cuttings rooting up.

Whilst she was watering them she noticed a few of the tiniest critters moving about. I need reading glasses to see anything that close up, so I put them on and had a good mag glass and I still couldn`t see anything, even though she was saying "there!" "there!", I thought she was seeing things. They`d float up when watered and flit about and disappear back into the coco, and she managed to catch some for me on some black card (the critters appear to be white) and show me. They`re whitish tiny long slim bodied lice like bugs, and they do flit about and can also jump a bit like a flea. They dont seem to like light and appeared to be jumping for cover under the bits of coco and the underside of the card. You could easily fit 4-5 on a pin head.

I`ve been reading up about root aphids, and although most of these mention winged flying versions and speak of plump swollen bodied bugs, and these are very slender as I say lice like creatures, some threads do mention non winged varieties.

I`m a bit concerned that if these are some kind of tiny root aphid it`d be a big part of my problems here, other threads with posts from people with root aphid problems mention continually stunted plants with pitiful yeilds.

I have no winged insects, gnats or otherwise in my grow room, and no spidermites, defo not.

I`m hoping they`re not aphids, I dont even know if they`re a problem here in the uk, but they`re a bit of a fucker to get rid of, some people having to move grows to different buildings and having to sterilise kit thoroughly before moving it in.

Before I get carried away, I need to find out WTF they are, any ideas guys?
They`re almost too tiny to see, and defo too tiny to take pics of.

Toke

Well the cuttings I was given never did root up, not one of them. I assume he let them get air before putting them in rockwool blocks.

I`ve since got 9 Armagheddon cuttings rooting up, 5 potted up and another 3-4 to pot up tmro. A few days after that I took 4x cup winner Big Bud, 4x Grapefruit and another 12 Armagheddon. I was amazed to see that some of the armagheddon and grapefruit are showing roots already so I`ll have some of these to pot up tmro with the other arma`s, I`ll need to be busy now clearing out the old grow and getting these new one`s in place within a week or so.

I know the Armagheddon is an 8 weeker (was told 6-7, but a mate does great with it at 8 weeks with pungent strong weed. I`m not sure how long the big bud and Grapefruit take, I`m trying to find out, this will decide what I grow next this coming grow.

If they`ll fit in time wise, I`d like to grow a mixture, it`d be cool to have a change of weed for my regular smoking, I get a bit fed up with the same smoke after a while regardless of how good it is. If the G/fruit and B,B take longer I may keep them as mothers for the grow after this next one.

The Grape fruit is intriguing, a gentle rub of the leaf leaves the hand smelling distinctly of fresh grapefruit, as you`d expect mint to leave your hand smelling of mint.

The tops off of this last grow weighed in at just 6 1/2 oz, the bottoms I left there to ripen up the bud previously obscured from the light and just chopped it down in 2-3 days ago, so they`d had very nearly 12 weeks on the plant. Its a nine weeker, but I love the heavier end of the smoke, associated with well ripened weed. It has swollen up and a lot of it has gone a deep purple colour and the resin build up is just rediculously intense. I think if I`m lucky I`ll get an ounce a plant on top of the 6 1/2 from the tops, so its well under the 60 oz target.

There are 2 silver linings to this past grow despite the overall disasterous results, the first is the bud is the strongest I`ve grown, its as if there the amount of resin that should have been on the fully developed bud has managed to cram itself onto the under developed bud, it looks like the resin is stacked on top of the resin. The second silver lining is that there is so much resin coated trim leaf, I`d say about 4x as much as I`d expect off a grow of this size, and again the resin build up is truly amazing. I also have a fair amount of sugary coated popcorn bud still on the plant getting a little light for a couple of days just to ripen up some more

With the trim leaf and popcorn, I aim to make some ultra strong butter for the making of cookies, perfect timing as I only have enough for a couple more batches of cookes left in the freezer. With the bulk though I`m gonna make a massive batch of exquisite Butane honey oil. Its gonna take some making though, I estimate 1-200 tins of butane lighter gas (£200) to do it all, I`m looking into a more efficient way of doing the stuff in one big run. Maybe a black and decker workmate with 3-4 tubes running at once, dumping the oil and butane into oven bags as opposed to my usual method of dumping onto hot water for the instant butane purge. I`ll need the help of a mate and may opt to go into the country side to do it, away from nosey neighbours and naked flames!

I`ll come back with the final results of this grow when its all dried etc., then it`ll be time to start my new thread for the coming grow. I`m excited about the new strains, the rooted clones are looking very happy in their new beer cup homes and nutrient feed, I`ll soon have 15 plants thriving in veg under metal halides. I`m not expecting any def/lockout issues and I`m confident I`ll be growing some top quality weed in about 3 months from now.

Its been really difficult lately as I had quite a serious injury with a knife, self inflicted accidentally. Arterial bleeding etc., its still far from healed, especially after all the trimming I`ve just done single handed. Single handed isn`t far from the truth either! It was a mammoth task, but its all hanging up now.

That`s why I haven`t been about much, even now the pain isn`t too intense, I`m having to type with one hand so its a bit of a chore, especially when I`m waffling on aimlessly. . . . . . on that note . . . .


Cheers, Toke ;-)

Oh the bugs in my coco are harmless springtails. Gonna try reusing my coco this time around, never done this before but I hear good things about it and it`ll save me money and the effort/risk disposing of old coco.

Toke

Springtails? Thats a new one on me buddy, what are they man? Hey', but if they are harmless then sweet as, you did'nt deserve any more shit bro-you've took enough of a beating on this last one, hopefully for you/we will see the back of any more shite thinking about coming your way! Reminded me of 'Fungus-Gnats' & or their larvae the way you described them(flitting about etc). at least there are loads of good products about to destroy such pests!
G'Luck Fella.........'Peace..................Scroger!

sha,e about that hope this one works out for you, I would go against he idea of reusing the coco yo dont really sure what the issue is would it not be better to reduce the chance of spreading anything to your next crop? only a thought.

Cheers Scroger, I`m confident my problems are behind me, Arma`n, Grapefruit and Big bud cup winner, the latter 2 are 3rd generation cuttings and have been pheno selected. Gonna go with all 3 strains, so unsure of doing a scrog as I`d expect them to grow quite differently, the Grapefruit I expect to be stretchy and sativa like in the growth, the big bud average and the Arma`s a little inbetween. I`m still tempted as they all finish roughly the same with the GF and BB 8-9 weekers and the Arma`s are supposed to be 8 max, some people say 6 weeks but I cant see that, I like mature bud.

I did a run of honey oil from some of the abundant trim and popcorn, filled the tube twice and got 5.2g off it, I reckon I`ve got enough sugary trim and popcorn to fill the tube another 10-15 times, probably more, so I`m thinking a couple of ounces of pure honeyand a batch of green butter is a great silver lining ;-)

Hey OB, yeah it crossed my mind but I just dont see any infection being responsible for these problems. I may still opt for new coco this go just to be on the safe side, but its a hassle having to dispose of 200ltrs of coco each grow. Thanks for making the point and getting me to think it through again.

I`ll start a new thread in the next week or so, I have 4 GFruit, 3 BBud and more than enough Arma`s to make the numbers up to15 in total. They`re all rooting nicely into beer cups at the mo. I`m getting away for 3 days so I`m leaving all the new ones sat on capillary matting that`s wicking from a bucket with ec1.1 with Rhizotonic and a little Superthrive, under a 200w envirolight. That`ll keep them happy for now and should be ready for the first transplant by the time I`m back. I`ll then put them under 400w metal halides for the veg period.

A monster scrog is becoming more appealing the more I think about it actually, I cant see any major problems other than different stretch rates, but I`ll go with 4 GF`s and one Arma in one tray under one light, 3 BB and 2 Arma`s in another tray under light 2, and 5 Arma`s in the third tray under the 3rd light

Mmmm. . . . maybe then.

Cheers Toke