S
Space Ghost
just pm him. 
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darthvapor
Active member
he gave reeferman his kush, skunk, original haze and lots of other genetics. So I would imagine reefeman would have the closest to the real thing.
Rastanfisk
Member
Q "1.´WTF
Q "2. BIG WTF jimbroker
´Bigger than Hell
It´s ´´´´weed man ! And the skunkman know´s his Shit
But that is a good question, for all the Seed Bank´s
Peace
Q "2. BIG WTF jimbroker
´Bigger than Hell It´s ´´´´weed man ! And the skunkman know´s his Shit
But that is a good question, for all the Seed Bank´s
Peace
G
Guest
Hi jimbroker. The hindu kush from sensi is landrace, not a hybrid. I grew it this year and wrote a report in the outdoor guide. It has a nice smell and was easy to grow but I wasn't really impressed with the potency and it made me wonder if this is what is meant in all the kush descriptions as "mild".
B
Bluebeard
Yeah, the sensi hindu kush and the afghani #1 from seedsman are both solely descended from afghan and hindu kush genes from Sam. Now, what does confuse me is why you are only interested in the ones from Sam. There are quite a few presoviet Afghans and Kushes in circulation that are superior in quality but have never had anything to do with Sam. A cursory view finds presoviet "purple kush", pure kush 88 (pk88), citrali indicas and sativas (not from the kush but still very nice), various PURE Mazar's (also not from the hindu kush but some are very nice), Petrolia Headstash (presoviet afghan, may or may not be from the hindu kush, mixed reviews), Ogbub is planning on releasing Deep Chunk in the very near future (another presoviet afghan which has very good reviews, although it isnt know if it is from the hindu kush or not). If you are looking for the best quality presoviet kush, I would go with the BCO purple kush. If you are looking for a landrace kush closer to a cali kush I would go with the pk88, which is shares so much similarity with Bubba Kush, it almost certainly seems related.
J
jimbroker
Space Ghost: I did pm him.. to check out and hopefully repspond to my questions in this post so everybody could benefit. =)
Bluebeard: Petrolia headstash has rave reviews and sounds nice.The reason I would like to get Sam's particular indica is because I would like to see/smell/taste/smoke Sam's pheno of indica that a lot of people are already familiar with due to Sam's work. I would imagine it is what most people think of when they think "indica".
Bluebeard: Petrolia headstash has rave reviews and sounds nice.The reason I would like to get Sam's particular indica is because I would like to see/smell/taste/smoke Sam's pheno of indica that a lot of people are already familiar with due to Sam's work. I would imagine it is what most people think of when they think "indica".
Rastanfink: Kinda answered your own wtf's didn't you? =)
I have not given my genetics to anyone, in more then a decade, if anyone is using them to make seeds them it is without my knowledge.
I have no plans to release anything soon as I am busy with other work, (R&D).
Try Flying Dutchman or Seedsmen UK, they did have my seeds but I don't know what they sell today.
Bluebeard,
When you say pre-Soviet Afghans & Kushes, do you mean pre-1979? If you know of clones that are that old I would be very surprised. That is 29 years old. Clones were not around much as indoor lighting was very new then and not used much yet.
I did see a few other Hindu-Kush and Afghans, Indicas before mine in the mid 70's but they were not maintained in a consistant way, or they were hybridized, so they are not still around except as a part of a current hybrid. Think about the changes a seed variety will go through if maintained by seed every year, and a small population with only one or a few males from seed each year. After 29 years I doubt anyone would say the variety was the same. While with clones, female and male, the seed batch is the same year after year. My oldest clones are 20 years old. The seeds produced are the same as 20 years ago.
BTW, when I came to Amsterdam in 1984 there were no Kush varieties besides mine here, most Kush were made from my work or hybrids of my work. I have also seen Canadian seeds that were Kush, a hybrid of my Kush for sure. I think you know that few Cannabis seed breeders or sellers
traveled to Afghanistan to get fresh seeds for new varietiy development, so where did they get their parental materials to start a new variety? From other seed breeders, in most cases. And in a lot of cases that was from my materials that I had collected and then distributed to everyone.
-SamS
I have no plans to release anything soon as I am busy with other work, (R&D).
Try Flying Dutchman or Seedsmen UK, they did have my seeds but I don't know what they sell today.
Bluebeard,
When you say pre-Soviet Afghans & Kushes, do you mean pre-1979? If you know of clones that are that old I would be very surprised. That is 29 years old. Clones were not around much as indoor lighting was very new then and not used much yet.
I did see a few other Hindu-Kush and Afghans, Indicas before mine in the mid 70's but they were not maintained in a consistant way, or they were hybridized, so they are not still around except as a part of a current hybrid. Think about the changes a seed variety will go through if maintained by seed every year, and a small population with only one or a few males from seed each year. After 29 years I doubt anyone would say the variety was the same. While with clones, female and male, the seed batch is the same year after year. My oldest clones are 20 years old. The seeds produced are the same as 20 years ago.
BTW, when I came to Amsterdam in 1984 there were no Kush varieties besides mine here, most Kush were made from my work or hybrids of my work. I have also seen Canadian seeds that were Kush, a hybrid of my Kush for sure. I think you know that few Cannabis seed breeders or sellers
traveled to Afghanistan to get fresh seeds for new varietiy development, so where did they get their parental materials to start a new variety? From other seed breeders, in most cases. And in a lot of cases that was from my materials that I had collected and then distributed to everyone.
-SamS
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G
Guest
Hi Sam
I think I got lucky and found a true Afghan landrace. A friend has a relative who's serving in the British Army and did a tour of Afghanistan in 2005, he brought some seeds back, I would guess from the Helmand province in the south-west, as I know the British were mostly in that province.
Indoors they took 70 days and were mostly purple, there were two green plants that were identical, just green buds, the lower buds on the green ones being pink. The high is a heady one, you feel it's effects in the fron of your head first and it has very little body stone. It's quite tall and has fairly thin leaves, so I am guessing that it's an indigenous landrace sativa such as described by Valilov rather than one of the short, broad-leafed drug cultivars we think of when we speak of Afghan types.
Just wondered if you've seen any Afghan types that resemble this one before, Sam?
I crossed the shortest, most branchy male Purple Afghan male to the Cheese clone and this pheno looks quite interesting, I think it's a Skunk/Cheese dom pheno.
I think I got lucky and found a true Afghan landrace. A friend has a relative who's serving in the British Army and did a tour of Afghanistan in 2005, he brought some seeds back, I would guess from the Helmand province in the south-west, as I know the British were mostly in that province.
Indoors they took 70 days and were mostly purple, there were two green plants that were identical, just green buds, the lower buds on the green ones being pink. The high is a heady one, you feel it's effects in the fron of your head first and it has very little body stone. It's quite tall and has fairly thin leaves, so I am guessing that it's an indigenous landrace sativa such as described by Valilov rather than one of the short, broad-leafed drug cultivars we think of when we speak of Afghan types.
Just wondered if you've seen any Afghan types that resemble this one before, Sam?
I crossed the shortest, most branchy male Purple Afghan male to the Cheese clone and this pheno looks quite interesting, I think it's a Skunk/Cheese dom pheno.
Sam_Skunkman said:
Most people travelling into Afghanistan during the 1980's were smuggled in over the Pakistan boarder alongside caravans of rocket propelled grenades!!!
Two Dutch men *(khareji) travelled the Panjshir Valley on horse back during the soviet occupation of Afghanistan in search of cannabis seed.
*The Dutch Men/khareji are obviously 'unnamed' in reference, although these crazy men were the talking point of local communities for some time after. [source: Jason Elliot; An Unexpected Light, Travels in Afghanistan]
Others found way to Nuristan via Chitral, and other lawless places.
hope this helps
peace
DocLeaf
"there was no such thing as travelling anonymously in Afghanistan" Jason Elliot
J
jimbroker
Sam the Skunkman:
Thanks for the reply. It cleared up a few things for me. I appreciate the mention of who had your seeds in the past so I at least know which breeders would have your stock.
Thanks for the reply. It cleared up a few things for me. I appreciate the mention of who had your seeds in the past so I at least know which breeders would have your stock.
B
Bluebeard
Hiya Sam, when I say pre-soviet, I don't mean very old cuttings, I mean the original seeds left the region, at the very least, before 1979, although some left before the fall of Zahir Shah (73-74?). Some have undergone more breeding than others, but you must admit that although how the inbreeding process was carried out means a whole lot in terms of quality, it does not take too many generations of incrossing to keep a line partially viable for 30 years. Although the term presoviet is somewhat meaningless I suppose, since the seeds currently being brought from afghanistan were more than likely also there in 1979. There were serious declines in quality of Afghan hashish from 1975 on. I believe this is why the term is used by seed vendors. Eventhough the decline in quality has more to do with sieving methods than genetics.
There are also many who have claimed finding viable seeds in hashish which came imported in smaller pieces. There are also Afghan and Hindu kush seedlines that go back for at least a few generations in Spain and Portugal. Then there is Big Sur Holyweed, and Indica Sativa hybrid which goes back to the 1960's. Dr. Greenthumb (Canadian) has pictures from his travels to India, Afghanistan and Pakistan in 1970, and he claims to have brought back indica seeds inadvertently in some smaller hash pieces from Jalalabad.
I have a picture of "Old Ed" (RIP, 2007) and a very young looking Dutchman bearing a striking resemblance to Arjan examining Indica doms growing in Holland which has an analog date stamp of 1980(?). I cannot remember the date for certain but I am almost 100% positive it was well before 1984, sometime between 1979-1981. I will see if I can find it... Are you certain that noone brought indica seeds to Holland before you?
It is interesting that you say that you have not given anyone seeds in a decade, because Reeferman is selling many seedlines which he says were gifted directly from you recently. I believe there is even a thread here on icmag, where he is selling something called "black magic african" which is obviously not a central african, and at best a south african. I obviously cannot pretend to know one way or the other, but if you have the time, you might want to address this privately with him.
There are also many who have claimed finding viable seeds in hashish which came imported in smaller pieces. There are also Afghan and Hindu kush seedlines that go back for at least a few generations in Spain and Portugal. Then there is Big Sur Holyweed, and Indica Sativa hybrid which goes back to the 1960's. Dr. Greenthumb (Canadian) has pictures from his travels to India, Afghanistan and Pakistan in 1970, and he claims to have brought back indica seeds inadvertently in some smaller hash pieces from Jalalabad.
I have a picture of "Old Ed" (RIP, 2007) and a very young looking Dutchman bearing a striking resemblance to Arjan examining Indica doms growing in Holland which has an analog date stamp of 1980(?). I cannot remember the date for certain but I am almost 100% positive it was well before 1984, sometime between 1979-1981. I will see if I can find it... Are you certain that noone brought indica seeds to Holland before you?
It is interesting that you say that you have not given anyone seeds in a decade, because Reeferman is selling many seedlines which he says were gifted directly from you recently. I believe there is even a thread here on icmag, where he is selling something called "black magic african" which is obviously not a central african, and at best a south african. I obviously cannot pretend to know one way or the other, but if you have the time, you might want to address this privately with him.
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Bluebeard,
Yes many people like Od Ed had Indica hybrids that turned out to be not maintainable by seeds, they are all gone now, except as part of a hybrid. Big Sur Holyweed did not have Indica blood at least not in the 60's and 70's when I lived very close to Big Sur. It was Sativas. The best was Original Haze lines or hybrids.
While finding seeds in hash pieces is great it is not the best foundation for an IBL. Or did they get numerous seeds of the same variety, both male and female? Without the numbers there is no selection, not a good start.
The bottom line is that sure there were Indica seeds around before me, but mine were dependable year after year, the others were not. I know because I got every Dutch Indica seed varieties sold I could find in the early 80's and grew them all, and most were a waste of my time, to be honest. I am not saying there were no good plants, but the seed lines were not consistant at all, and most plants were crap.
-SamS
Yes many people like Od Ed had Indica hybrids that turned out to be not maintainable by seeds, they are all gone now, except as part of a hybrid. Big Sur Holyweed did not have Indica blood at least not in the 60's and 70's when I lived very close to Big Sur. It was Sativas. The best was Original Haze lines or hybrids.
While finding seeds in hash pieces is great it is not the best foundation for an IBL. Or did they get numerous seeds of the same variety, both male and female? Without the numbers there is no selection, not a good start.
The bottom line is that sure there were Indica seeds around before me, but mine were dependable year after year, the others were not. I know because I got every Dutch Indica seed varieties sold I could find in the early 80's and grew them all, and most were a waste of my time, to be honest. I am not saying there were no good plants, but the seed lines were not consistant at all, and most plants were crap.
-SamS
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G
Guest
the original PK was a staple for the Garberville area till '84 and then no longer.........and have yet to attain once again......many wannnabes, but none come close......
and would agree w/ Sam that no indica was ever involved in the original BSHW ..........
and would agree w/ Sam that no indica was ever involved in the original BSHW ..........
" With out the #'s there is no selection, Not a good start" This is why its always nice to open up some gifted seed and see enough to do this atleast a little bit. 25 is a good start. Better than 5, but not as good as couple hundred. Any way god point SSM.
I
indicalover
Hey Sam, what is the probability that Reeferman is telling the truth about the Mazar line saying that it is pure and was collected by you?
G
Guest
Hi Sam The SkunkMan,
Do you remember a variety that you worked on with Neville called 'New Skunk'? Is there anything you can tell us about this variety?
Do you remember a variety that you worked on with Neville called 'New Skunk'? Is there anything you can tell us about this variety?
I never worked on any variety with Neville, he sold my varieties, then used them to make his own. I never even grew his varieties, except for one or two, I was busy with my own.
Mazar was not collected by me, Neville bought the seeds in Pakistan from Afghani or Pakistani smugglers. It was a flop, he dropped it after a few years. It was Neville's first attempt to create his own variety from scratch, after that he stuck to retooling others breeders work, or making simple hybrids of other breeders work, and calling the new hybrid his own.
-SamS
Mazar was not collected by me, Neville bought the seeds in Pakistan from Afghani or Pakistani smugglers. It was a flop, he dropped it after a few years. It was Neville's first attempt to create his own variety from scratch, after that he stuck to retooling others breeders work, or making simple hybrids of other breeders work, and calling the new hybrid his own.
-SamS
