DWC plants not grabbing?

InjectTruth · Feb 20, 2008

Weird.

DWC has been the most on/off method for me. I currently have a bunch of beautiful ladies in DWC thriving, but this recent batch Ive setup is acting different.

My DWC transplant method is this: Aero cloner clones with long roots get placed in a net cup. The roots are carefully guided through the net mesh to make sure there are some root tips already out of the pot. the pot is filled in gently with hydroton.

The res is filled with tap water up to the bottom of the net pots, maxigro is added at the rate of 1tsp per gallon, resulting in approx 600 ppm. This particular setup has twice as much air running through it as usual. I setup a friend a few weeks ago with the same system and his plants exploded with growth.

Its been 3 - 4 days, and my roots look the same as when I put them in! I have added hydrogen peroxide (which made my friends plants grow several inches overnight, roots included) They are still white, but they arent growing at all! ph is a little high at around 7.0, but I dont know if I should add more nutes or ph down instead. Was thinking that the ppms may be to high, or the ph is too high.

I just took some water out so the pots are being misted by the bubbles as opposed to directly submerged, hoping it will make the roots reach out.

This is very frustrating, considering I repeat the same process and get drastically different results.

If anyone can shed some light on this issue, it would be much appreciated.

oaktree · Feb 20, 2008

I'm no expert but i do know a ph of 7 is way to high.

MynameStitch · Feb 20, 2008

The res is filled with tap water up to the bottom of the net pots, maxigro is added at the rate of 1tsp per gallon, resulting in approx 600 ppm. This particular setup has twice as much air running through it as usual. I setup a friend a few weeks ago with the same system and his plants exploded with growth.

Its been 3 - 4 days, and my roots look the same as when I put them in! I have added hydrogen peroxide (which made my friends plants grow several inches overnight, roots included)

Ok, how big are these plants? How tall?
ANother thing, you have your buckets filled too much, you don't want the water right at the bottom of the net pot if they have roots hanging out of the net pot, you not only could keep the medium they are in too wet, like the rockwool or rapid rooters.... if you are using them.

DEpending on how big ther plants are 600 ppms will be too high.

Your water pH is most defiantly off, pH of 7 is too high, you need to get ahold of some pH down and bring it to around 5.5 to 6.3
Another thing, you never want to use h202 on smaller plants, smaller plants don't have a defense up yet and the small ones they do have h202 kills it but also kills the bacteria growth in there if any, so when the bacteria comes back the pla nt has no defense and overuns the amount of h202 in there thus giving you a worst off infection than previous if you had one.

h202 does not cause explosive growth, having your system run properly and know what you are doing is the cause of explosive growth.

Were your friends plants in flowering when they grew overnight?

I just took some water out so the pots are being misted by the bubbles as opposed to directly submerged, hoping it will make the roots reach out.

This is what you want, but you need to make sure the water is hitting the net pot, the bubbles, otherwise the water needs to be filled higher, if it's hitting past the roots and up into the medium, this is not what you want.

Do you have any pictures of these plants?

WHat size bucket are you using? What air pump are you using?
WHat is the water temps? Not guessing, need an exact temp.

InjectTruth · Feb 21, 2008

4 plants in an 18 gallon tub (71.2F, 2 $10 walmart pumps, 3 airstones, 1 bubble wand, 5.8-6.0ph), and one plant in a 4.5 gallon bucket (69.1F, 1 walmart pump, 2 airstones, 5.8-6.0ph.) The clones are mediumless aero clones with huge roots going in. Hydroton holds plants in place in 3.5in net cups. I have lowered the water level to about 3-4" under the pots.

Woody Creek · Feb 21, 2008

3000 posts doen't mean shit

3000 posts doen't mean shit

MynameStitch said:
The res is filled with tap water up to the bottom of the net pots, maxigro is added at the rate of 1tsp per gallon, resulting in approx 600 ppm. This particular setup has twice as much air running through it as usual. I setup a friend a few weeks ago with the same system and his plants exploded with growth.

Its been 3 - 4 days, and my roots look the same as when I put them in! I have added hydrogen peroxide (which made my friends plants grow several inches overnight, roots included)

Ok, how big are these plants? How tall?
ANother thing, you have your buckets filled too much, you don't want the water right at the bottom of the net pot if they have roots hanging out of the net pot, you not only could keep the medium they are in too wet, like the rockwool or rapid rooters.... if you are using them.

DEpending on how big ther plants are 600 ppms will be too high.

Your water pH is most defiantly off, pH of 7 is too high, you need to get ahold of some pH down and bring it to around 5.5 to 6.3
Another thing, you never want to use h202 on smaller plants, smaller plants don't have a defense up yet and the small ones they do have h202 kills it but also kills the bacteria growth in there if any, so when the bacteria comes back the pla nt has no defense and overuns the amount of h202 in there thus giving you a worst off infection than previous if you had one.

h202 does not cause explosive growth, having your system run properly and know what you are doing is the cause of explosive growth.

Were your friends plants in flowering when they grew overnight?

I just took some water out so the pots are being misted by the bubbles as opposed to directly submerged, hoping it will make the roots reach out.

This is what you want, but you need to make sure the water is hitting the net pot, the bubbles, otherwise the water needs to be filled higher, if it's hitting past the roots and up into the medium, this is not what you want.

Do you have any pictures of these plants?

WHat size bucket are you using? What air pump are you using?
WHat is the water temps? Not guessing, need an exact temp.

STOP HELPING!!!! THIS IS THE SECOND OR THIRD TIME I'VE SEEN YOU HELP. YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT, STOP HELPING. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. YOU BABBLE, H2O2 WON'T CAUSE RAPID GROWTH.....FUCK OFF YOU PROBABLY HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED THIS.

hydroflower · Feb 21, 2008

I'd follow stitch if I were you. H2O2 will only cause rapid growth if your air pump aint big enough. Big enough pump, H2O2 not even necessary imo.

Woody Creek · Feb 21, 2008

If you still have white root, adjust ph and wait up a couple. how long where they in the water? with a little root showing you look to be ok. it might just be stress, are the temps the same across the board? did you change light spectrum?

you did perfect with the transplant. i've seen others just throw it in the net pot. makes the difference when you do it right and take the time.

h2o2 is absolutely amazing. super oxy water requires more nutes than regular. i don't run ppm's, being a raw organic grower, so can't help you on that end.
What i can say it that with an alfalfa tea, your problems might end. always given good strong organic tea, all growth problems end.

Woody Creek · Feb 21, 2008

hydroflower said:
I'd follow stitch if I were you. H2O2 will cause rapid growth if your air pump aint big enough. Big enough pump, H2O2 not even necessary imo.

yeah follow snich.........dude he's not even paying attentin to what med. is being used.

hate to tell ya, but very little things like this matter .when your deciding to put the pot into the water, instead of out. without a rockwool cube you want it in the water a bit with bubbles coming into the pot, instead of with a rockwool cube you want in Just above, until it roots out. why? cause the cube holds water better than just hydro rocks. if you do it he other way other problems may happen, depending on your system. Attention to detail is what makes a difference.

aligee · Feb 21, 2008

After adjusting your ph i would suggest top feeding your clones with a simple water pump in rez attach 1/4 tubing and run it to the top of your net pots i also use hydro guard from beginning to end and i've had outstanding results

Gypsy Nirvana · Feb 21, 2008

Woody Creek....

could you kindly refrain from treating other members with such distain?

If you have a problem with some other entity on these boards either sort it out via PM......or if they are breaching the TOU then notify a Moderator or an Administrator....

MynameStitch · Feb 21, 2008

Dude, got news for ya, I grow with hydro for a while I know wtf I am talking about woody.

SO back off
h202 WILL NOT CAUSE an explosive growth, care to prove this and show proof that it does? You can't cause there is no proof of this.
I used to use h202 in my stuff and my plants grew much better without it, it kills off the beneficial bacteria the plant needs and it also kills off stuff you put in your res woody.

Yes I know it gives extra o2, but it only lasts for so long and disapates from the bubbles and extra air, only lasts for a day and you would have to keep added it everyday.

Inject, I can see that woody is the one who you were referring to the explosive growth, but obviously he does not know the whole truth behind h202.

Keep the water about 1/2 in below the net pot, the bubbles will pop keeping the roots moist inside, keeping the netpot inside water will keep the area too wet, you want the roots to grow down into the water and keeping water that close will cause slower root development, you want roots to search out for water, rather than bringing the water right to them.

Also using h202 on small plants like that asking for trouble, trust me dude. Been there done that.

Get some pH down and control your pH and your plants will be fine. Sounds like you did what was asked of you to do, so now monitor your ppm levels and make sure they stay stable, never add more nutrients to control your water pH, doing this will burn them so you need to get ahold of some pH down and make sure it has no sodium added.

As for woody here, he has no idea wtf he is doing and if he is your friend who "has the explosive growth" wait till he has problems with warm temps, lets see how his best friend h202 will handle that problem.

Thanks gypsy! :yes:

upgradeshafted · Feb 21, 2008

mynamestitch is a women...and you sir are out of line...i think she does a fantastic job helping folks around here...i dont help much because pricks that act like you just did always got to jump in and tell me my advice is wrong...smoke a fatty and voice your opinions in a respectful way if you must voice them...dont let the haters get you riled up stitch....peace

Woody Creek said:
yeah follow snich.........dude he's not even paying attentin to what med. is being used.

upgradeshafted · Feb 21, 2008

it is in my humble opinion that h2o2 is like antibiotics...dont use them unless you have to...because of what they do to the defense system

MynameStitch · Feb 21, 2008

Thanks for the support upgrade! Really appreciate it, I found some stuff on the web, this is just one of many I found: I found proof what I said is correct!

Here is the link if you want to read it woody!
http://www.canadianwholesalehydroponics.com/faq.cfm?faqSection=4

# Q. If I have a pythium outbreak which is killing my root system can I use h202 to save them?

A. Using h202 in the reservoir will kill the pythium spores, but it may also damage healthy roots that are still remaining unless given the right dose. H202 will oxidize organic material in general, rather than only killing the pythium. Once the damage is gotten this far it's hard to control. When it comes to pythium the best method for control is prevention. If your crop is close to being done then the best thing to do would be to finish it off and after harvest sterilize everything! Try and keep on top of it this time. Keep reservoir temperature.

Another one portaining to inject was talking about!!!

Q. Should I use H2o2 on my seedlings in rock wool?

A. No it is not needed this young in the plants early stage. At this stage there will be hardly any organic matter for the h202 to attack therefore it will attack fragile little root hairs. Older root systems are stronger and more resistant to h202 damage unless extremely high doses occur.

So now woody, what were you saying? I have no clue what I am talking about? I think it's the other way around dude.

Some more info for ya!
http://www.blunt.co.uk/hydroponics-shop-uk/hydroponic-systems/aeroponic-pod-system/nft.htm

Most NFT growers administer H202 to their tanks but at a very dilute ratio, however this really needs to be done on a daily basis as dilute H2O2 breaks down very rapidly and over the course of 24 hours has completely dissolved its active ingredients. In using H2O2 in a daily capacity this prohibits the use of organic growth promoters and other products that reduce the possibility of bacterial break out like pythium.

Just like I said in my previous post, you would have to add it everyday and thus you are causing the plant to terminate it's defense against pathogens.
Again, does more harm than good. Ime, h202 should only be used in a separate bucket to dip roots that have root rot, to help kill off the bacteria, BUT when putting them back into there own buckets a pyrethin killer should be added like sm90, so h202 should only be used as a strong dipping solution to help kill off some of the root rot before putting it back in the system so the sm90 will have an easier time killing it off. Yes, h202 does kill, but it also kills the plants defense system and the h202 dipping should only be done in severe cases when the plants own defense has been overran.

sirgrassalot · Feb 21, 2008

upgradeshafted said:
mynamestitch is a women...and you sir are out of line...i think she does a fantastic job helping folks around here...i dont help much because pricks that act like you just did always got to jump in and tell me my advice is wrong...smoke a fatty and voice your opinions in a respectful way if you must voice them...dont let the haters get you riled up stitch....peace

Woody Creek said:

yeah follow snich.........dude he's not even paying attentin to what med. is being used.

Click to expand...

I see it coming from the regulars too. I think what Gypsy said pertains to everyone & anyone. I don't let it get me down none. It does nothing but drags this fine board down.

ackuric · Feb 21, 2008

ahh nice research stitch, nice to know, although common sense told me that h2o2 which is anti-bacterial/disinfectant would kinda defeat the purpose of organics and beneficial bacterias, and when used at high doses or frequently, youre constantly killing off bacteria, good and bad. I'd advise against using it daily/frequently unless you have frequent issues. This woody charachter said it best, attention to detail is what makes a difference. Yup, awareness is a great thing, always do your research like stitch before implying a remedy to someones sickling

MynameStitch · Feb 22, 2008

ackuric said:
ahh nice research stitch, nice to know, although common sense told me that h2o2 which is anti-bacterial/disinfectant would kinda defeat the purpose of organics and beneficial bacterias, and when used at high doses or frequently, youre constantly killing off bacteria, good and bad. I'd advise against using it daily/frequently unless you have frequent issues. This woody charachter said it best, attention to detail is what makes a difference. Yup, awareness is a great thing, always do your research like stitch before implying a remedy to someones sickling

Yup, I keep trying to tell it to some people, some people just can't get it through there head. It's made to kill off bacteria, common sense should tell you if it does that, what other bacteria does it kill?
Kind of like mouth wash, kills off bacteria, but it also kills off good bacteria in your mouth.

Rocky, thanks for the kind words my friend, very nice indeed very appreciative of that! :yes:

Guest · Feb 22, 2008

Stitch has only tried to "help" 2 or 3 times ? Is that per member or as a whole on this site? The way I see it stitch is on top of things concerning growing and is rarely wrong. When that rare occurence happens it was usually a Communication Error. Why should Stitch stop trying to help IC Maggers Woody Creek ? I really don't get it ...

sirgrassalot · Feb 22, 2008

This isn't about right or wrong plant help & ALL those that are here to help K+ if you mix that with flaming K-. What it's about is if you have a personal beef keep it off the board & use the proper channels.

Woody Creek · Feb 25, 2008

RockyMountainHi said:
Stich grows and shares knowlege.

You mention "DETAILS" and say Aero cloner in one post and rock wool cubes in another post.

So,,, -- sup wit da "DETAILS"

I was stating under what conditions stichs anwser would have been right. If the med. was rockwool, she would have been correct. I should have been nicer, but she's been bugging me lately. I probably overreacted. So yes, i'm sorry. I'm a grown man i know when i'm not right. She can do what she wants, i'm not going to take her place. It's thankless job.

He was using aero, that's way i anwsered for aero.

DWC plants not grabbing?

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