My Perpetual Ebb & Flow Cabinets

Hey IC Mag gang, I'm back in action after a long hiatus in getting my show back up to speed due to a vengeful roomate, and the NARCS he involved. Luckily the day he moved out I cleaned house because the city's police harassed me for the next month and a half before I moved to a new locale. At this point in time I am trying to rebuild some of my mother stock as I lost all of my moms, including some clone only and Brother's Grimm stock you obviously can't get easily anymore. But the friend who gifted me the Bros. Grimm stock was more upset than me because I was holding those genetics during his stint in the USCG. But either way I have my freedom and some mothers and have my room up and running again so I thought I would share now that I have my camera charger back also. I'll be updating my grows here because as the thread states this cab is perpetual Ebb & Flow and doesn't stop at all, fresh rooted/vegged clones replace harvested girls, usually 3-4 per week. And on with the show...

Here's where it all begins, the Mother/Clone/Veg cabinet:



And an open view:



These are Moms and seedings undergoing selection:



being that I lost @ 15 moms or so, I want a nice selection but have obviously limited space so I start 3 seeds of a strain and usually have had good success finding females, better than 50%. I have already found 3 keepers as far as Nirvana beans go ( they are the only seeds I had left after moving and everything but it is still homegrown and have ordered some nice new beans we'll talk about in a minute or two ) so I run them mostly and try the new females one plant at a time for 2 runs to see if she can occupy the precious space in my mom tray. If they dont make the cut, I test a new seed of the same variety or a new strain. This doesn't seem to take as long as it would seem because a new clone whether keeper or tester is replacing harvested plants almost weekly.

Clones and seedlings are started below the vegging clone tray (both pics below) which is located next to the mother tray:





There is a seedling flat and thermostat controlled heat mat behind the aerocloner.



Some clones need vegging and some do not, it does not necessarily mean it's in the genetics because I run my flower nutes for one tray with plants in 8 different weeks of growth at the same time. So, the less it stretches the more veg I give it to compensate.

Here is the flower cab across the room:






The cab houses a homemade E&F tray made from a cement mixing tub from HD which measures 36"x24"x7". The rez is a 25 gallon tote doubled up for strength and filled to 16 gallons. The lamp is a 400W switchable, but I'm running it as MH with a conversion HPS bulb as mine broke in the move and I wanted to get things sorted right away and had this bulb laying around. I won't really get into that tho because I just bought a 6" cooltube and will be reworking the whole ventilation setup for better flow and more lighting vertically/horizantally as the cooltube can be mounted higher and the bulb is half exposed with the reflector installed, but I may mod it into a batwing type outside the tube to get even more bulb exposed. Probably will be doing that this weekend and posting pics.

And here's some plants in the tray:

BlueMystic 3 Weeks


BlueMystic 4 Weeks


Ice 2 Weeks


And some shots of todays harvest of 9 SOGged clones :

Blue Mystic and Northern Lights


White Rhino


Blue Mystic "A" Pheno


Blue Mystic "B" Pheno


Northern Lights


White Rhino





I'll be updating here, this weekend the cooltube addition (probably) and the starting of some new strains but I don't know what to start I could make alot more room by taking some clones of each mom and once rooted cull the original mom. If not I'm limited on space. Do I do that or select only 2-3 strains to start? I have Spice of Life Blockhead and Swt#3, Rez Sour Diesel IBL and Wonder Haze, Mr. Nice/Shanti SSH, Sensi Jack Herer (first 7 died in germination, think it was an OLD pack the only other strain I had besides Nirvana beans after my move) and Black Domina (already testing 2 females and one unconfirmed) , Soma NYCD (testing 1 fem and 2 unconfirmed) and a bunch of Nirvana strains most of which I am just about to do test runs on females which are now crowding the tray (these are the one I'd cull after taking clones NOT the 3-4 I might keep). What do you guys think?

Nice clean setup bro

Nice clean setup bro

That's one heck of a clean setup...props. I like stasis....

With Casey Jones....I took 10+ cuts each, from 3 parents....I tossed two in bloom...after confirming my first lady...I took a cut from Stasis...and have it rooting now....by the time the parent is harvested....I have a replacement ready (taking more fresh cuts for stasis during the offspring veg cycle)

I know how it is to have setbacks....glad ya bounced back....certainly do have some nice genetics to get on down to the biznas at hand

good luck

Very nice imnot. Makes me think longingly to my water baby days. You got some nice genitics to work with. I had some problems with running to many different strains in my ebb and flo as they like different amounts of nutes. Didn't keep me from trying though. Good growing!

Hi m8
I took the liberty to play with one of your pictures to clear the colors a bit.
Here's the result. Think it's a bit easier to se the beauty

^^ Thanks Mibri, It was like 3am here when I posted and I was just up trying to go to sleep ya know so I didn't even try to fix the pics.

VT, I didn't even think about stasis. How long you think they'll be good for in the crisper drawer in the fridge? Cause there are at least 2 of each strain on my Mom tray mostly for vegging and sexing. I have the Blue Mystic and White Rhino mom (I got lucky with the Rhino mom too, I took clones and put the original seedling to flower and only the clones from the best one rooted, and it roots fast I took clones sunday and have roots wednesday) The rest are in trial so stasis or reducing them to clone size would allow me the most space to see what else I have might bump another one out. I'm trying to have enough moms to create enough canopy to keep algae out but at the same time small enough that they can be rearrainged to allow new seeds/clones to be tested also. Also I could grow 3' plants in the small clone tray I made, if I felt like topping off so I could realistically keep clones of moms in there extremely trimmed back.

YNGWIE, I use Lucas formula and the most I ever see in regards to nute problems is Ca Mg or N deficiencies, I have Cal-Mag Plus and it fixes most problems or I tailor the Lucas a little bit or I could always just mix up a bucket of stronger nutes and dunk the pot for a minute or two if really necessary. Havn't had to do that yet as Ca, Mg and N can usually fluxuate quite a bit but I try to keep N low due to constant harvest yet High enough that the new clones don't stunt. This harvest smokes well ( I took down 2 White Rhinos 1.5 weeks ago because I needed to free up some space and was running out anyway), much less harsh than when I had them stretch to 4' and had to block light when I tied down the first cycle with theses plants.

Also it is good to be back into the swing of things, but would have really liked to have been able to save my old moms. I cleaned house and filled 4 25 gallon totes with moms of Bros Grimm original C99, Matanuska Thunder, Apollo 11 & Rosetta Stone. My friend gave them to me, he had gotten them from his brother who had grown them since he and I went to middle/high school together. He took over for a while and decided to let me keep them for him when he went to the CG. All 4 succomed to PM in the totes in my friends basement. I took cuts and dipped them but all were too far gone. The others were seeds I selected and clones gifted which could be easily replaced. The exact phenos of the Bros Grimm moms I'm not so sure.

awesome bro, i was just thinking about going perpetual myself and did a search to see some of the others and i didn't find much for perpetual shows.....this will be fun to watch...good luck....peace

thats sweet man !!! i like those cab's really tight and eaasy to take care of.....nice !!!!

imnotcrazy said:

How long you think they'll be good for in the crisper drawer in the fridge?

Click to expand...

About 60 days....I am currently rooting some MTF that had been in stasis about 3 weeks....just gifted a buddy a MTF clone that was rooted after being in stasis near 3 weeks also....

I like those "2-sided" plastic containers with lids....fill the small side up with water...place the cuts in the bigger side...snap on the lid...pop in the fridge....

**when taking cuttings out of stasis....I have found it's best to sit the stem slightly submerged in a cup with water a day or two....they need to acclimate before you try rooting them....

Yea you could just use stasis...and leave the parents in bloom (decide on the keeper later) and make room for another "trial plant".....

I am on my 3rd run with TW using this system.....about to chop one TW in a couple weeks, and have one at 12" ready to replace her

peace

^^^ Good to know, not to knock Nirvana but alot of their stock is laying claim to the real estate in my Mom tray and I'd hate to push off finding keepers of Sour Diesel IBL, SSH, SWT#3 and Blockhead. I'll be starting those this weekend with this info in hand. I'm building a bigger 8" outside Sun Is Shining Carbon filter tomorrow and getting rid of the 6" to 4" reducer on my inline fan and installing the cool tube also this weekend, should make this setup that much better.

nice. keep up the good work

nice and clean!

excellent work, & glad to see you back!

Lookin good - great job on the cabs, nice setup. Will be watchin that blockhead!

one question if you are doing perpetual in one tray...how do you flush?

Hey all, Starting Blockhead, SSH (look for catpiss pheno), Sour Diesel IBL (hear good things), SWT#3 (S.P.G.), and possibly Wonder Haze ( look for WW pheno), Dreamweaver/God Bud and Gypsy's Gum. I'm also triying the last 8 or so beans I have of Jack Herer. the last 7 beans died in germ. I had the pack for a while (1-1.5 yrs in fridge), and assume the pack may have sat in the sellers/breeders hands for a while as in is an older variety yet still expensive. Also it's said they are hard to grow, Unless they meant bad germ rates I have yet to see, but I'm trying anyway because... why the hell not, not going to get any younger in the fridge so they get a shot also. As per my convo with -VT-, I'll be putting clones of the Moms of the untested strains in stasis and culling the moms which are taking up space that I need for the seedlings so they can be trained. If the NL harvested (above pic) is better than the other mom she gets culled also either way, more room

unicorn: I run a Lucas formula, using Tap Water of 160 ppm @ .68 conversion and 7.1-2 PH. I havn't flushed or changed rez since I vegged the plants whose buds are one the screens in the pics above. I'm doing a flush in a week or two to try this gallon of PBP flower I bought. I like the Lucas for Moms and clones as I can tailor the 2 part a bit more. The PBP is called organic but isn't approved but I want to see the difference. Already have the Cal-Mag Plus for the Lucas in case they need it. And the worst I usually see nute wise is Ca, Mg or N defs and the Ca-Mg + fixes most of it cause it contains N Fe and some others, only plants ready for harvest show any P or K defs. So in essence I only top off weekly or so and set the rez back to where it should be. If I see a problem, usually its related to something cal mag can fix so I put 5ml/ gal in to correct and keep an eye on em. Sometimes a clone first going shows slight P or K overdose, but again its slight and a boost of cal mag more or less makes it go away after adding a gallon or 2 of tap water. Your milage may vary unless using RO water. This town has very clean water (except the one time it was brown when they did work on the mains, I let my rez's be for @ a week and the water went back to normal levels) either way I'd get one of the Home Water Analysis kits from HD or Lowe's, Not like what the water provider could do, but good enough for my purposes. My kit read everything at the lowest reading (color change) and I guess If it's good enough for me... it has worked thus far but I'll still prob get RO someday when the funds allow it.

yes i use the lucas formula and perpetual as well didnt really answer my question ...if they are in defferent stages of growth they have different needs...how do you do that with one tray?

I was tired and high last night so I can see what you mean. I just try to balance it to minimize the deficiencies and I make my selections for strains based on how well they do in my conditions, or I'll run strains thet will have similar needs for a while and switch it up. You can find 4-5 strains that would need almost identical needs and run them for a bit fairly easily. Like I said, I just topped off my rez with tap water to drop the nute srtength. The new clones root fast during the stretch and I can usually bump the nutes back up several hundred ppm within a week, I usually don't see any adverse affects in that short span of time. If I ever did, I'd try to dip those plants in a 2gallon bucket of stronger nutes after a flood once a day or so. Or if its really bad I can go right to where the clones first start to show nute burn. Again My rez stays where I set it, and I'm lucky to have good tap waterto work with. And I've been doing this for a long time, took a while to get here too. I used to run single trays full of clones and go straight through to harvest, but this suits me better. I two months, I more than double what my 400W would do running a full tray. Plus I don't get over excited about fluctuations in PH or ppm, my plants are much happier that way. I also let the rez drop @ 3-4 gallons before topping off, so the nute strength rises. And I could argue, the Plants stretching are using more N and the ones that have been there a while are using more P and K, so they are keeping my nutes in some sort of a balance so that may attest to why I don't see nute lock-out/under/overfert after 2.5 months. Using the GH micro and Bloom and a little Cal Mag Plus here and there if I see a problem. The only reason I am doing a rez change is to try the PBP gallon I have now. But it could be beneficial as I'm starting to see some K def on some of the 5.5 week olds, but most are doing just fine and with only 2.5 to go even thats ok in my book. The clones I added yesterday are taking off and I'll bump it up and see what happens. If clones go to shit, no biggie I'll only be days, up to max a week when the next clones go in. That buys me time if there is a problem, and then I'll just double up on what goes in or add one plant with a longer flowering time on top of the 3 I normally put in weekly, giving me more room to testor I'll have "longer flowering time spots" saved in the table for the future, which is good considering Sour D and SSH are being started once I hit the post button.

Good news on the new clones taking off
Been thinking about your post....and wondering why it works well for you...and a couple of the points you made had me thinking ..........
(Sativas do that to me...sorry )

imnotcrazy said:

Plus I don't get over excited about fluctuations in PH or ppm, my plants are much happier that way. I also let the rez drop @ 3-4 gallons before topping off, so the nute strength rises

Click to expand...

I think letting the EC bounce like that can keep a few different strains..."satisfied", but arguably...not optimal.... you grow some dank...as proven by the sweet nugshot posted earlier

and....

And I could argue, the Plants stretching are using more N and the ones that have been there a while are using more P and K, so they are keeping my nutes in some sort of a balance so that may attest to why I don't see nute lock-out/under/overfert after 2.5 months.

Click to expand...

Great stuff!

^^ I agree whole-heartedly, but again if I run one tray one strain clone to flower and ran it exactly how it would want environment/feeding wise per plant production would probably go up but I'll have more variety and quantity and it's always much better and obviously cheaper than street weed (and I do it with E&F cause it'd be easier todo individual pots of soil of soilless but I'm too busy/lazy to mix all those nutes). And Thats why I think they can take the higher nutes. I'm assuming Micro nute needs don't fluxuate much and clones need N for the stretch and plants 5+ weeks in need P and K so I can run 1800-2000 ppm for example and won't burn the clones but if I had a whole tray of that particular clone I'd run it more like 15-1600. So, being the 1800 figure is the sum of all Macro and Micro nutes, running stronger nutes than fresh clones requires allows them the extra N (being you would top of with a balance nute mix ie: 0-8-16 Lucas) and the P and K is used faster by the older plants and keeps the solution balanced for my add back preventing lockouts. I know this harvest smokes better than last one only 4-5 days from cut ( had to sample the Blue Mystic looked soo good) so the N that was there last time running all plants for 60 days W/flush at end seems to not be there (I know it was N last time done that before) and at ~1800 ppm @harvest so my THEORY could hold some weight. If anyone knew Oscar Meyer from OG he did things this way also and ran with very few rez changes/year too.

very nice setup man and a lovely garden as well bro... Great work and thanx for sharing it will surely help out some DIY'ers.. peace..

sack

Very nice cab set up I also grow hydro in a cab and i'm needing to build a small mother/clone cab. I really dont want to grow soil or hand feed if possible because I travel allot and need my babies to take care of themselves.
In this picture are you flodding or hand feeding your moms??

I want to keep them small and bonsi style so I get lots of clones

70s