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Insect Frass

A

all natural

Member
Hi I have just recently read about insect frass and purchased a small amount to try, about a half a pound of it. I have only watered a few plants with it so far. the claims about insect frass are intereseting and I was wondering if any of you organic growers have used it? and what your thoughts on this product are? here is a statement on the onfrass.com website about insect frass:

Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”). Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Is this from Black Soldier Flies (BSF) by any chance?

BTW - Crab, Shrimp and Lobster contain Chitin at high levels. Plus you pick-up 96% Calcium Carbonate - same compound as Oyster shell powder & Calcite Lime

>>shrug<<
 
A

all natural

Member
I got mine off amazon. I dont know what the black soldier flies are? they sound fierce haha.
So a crab meal would probably be a better option then. calcium plus chitin. mmmmmmm

BTW I checked concentrates product list and i cannot find the basalt you mentioned they have. Is the basalt the cascade minerals rock dust? i remember when i was there an employee was telling me about that stuff and how it is sourced out of oregon.

Also I know they used to sell neem seed meal but couldnt find it on their list so maybe they stopped carrying it?
 
A

all natural

Member
just looked up bsf, and i dont know if this is made by them. It doesnt list where the frass comes from.

this is on the FAQ:

Q: What is Insect Frass?

A: Insect Frass is the excrement of herbivore insects.

Q: What do you feed the insects?

A: Vegetables, Cactus and Wheat Bran

Q: What makes insect Chitin better than crustacean Chitin?

A: In simple terms, insect chitin is the form used by plants in nature. Crustacean chitin is trapped in the calcified shell. In order to get the chitin from inside the calcified shell, it must be boiled in potassium hydroxide acid (tremendously toxic and very dangerous, certainly not organic). On the other hand, the chitin in insect frass is broken down by the plant naturally, by the chitinase enzyme produced by the plants own immune-response-system. That’s organic!
 
M

MrSterling

Hey all natural. I use a bit of meal worm frass in my gardening. It seems to suppress fungal gnats completely is my only documentable experience. It also goes into my soil in small portions. I need to find someone to email regarding the amount of microbe life it contains.
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
all natural

Cascade Minerals - Basalt rock dust

They have never sold neem - not that I haven't tried to get them to carry it. I understand because that's not their business - retail sales. Last year they sold over 200 tons of just the Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust (brand name) - just that one single amendment. Big numbers on their other products as well. Their volume allows them to give small gardeners prices very close to wholesale.

Yeah - you've dipped into the BSF world and I'll politely bow out but you might want to run this text string through even Google to see what you might see - "chitin bacterial chitinase"
 
A

all natural

Member
hmm I swear i saw neem seed meal some where before. Naomi's does not carry it either I dont think. Where do you get this from ? I swear i have seen it before because I remember not buying it because i wasnt sure what to do with it. my only knowledge of neem was with the oil prior to this.

Interesting about the chitinase. That is what I sort of thought, that the bacteria would break the shells down to release the chitin. So the frass isnt necessary for chitin but there may be other benefits? but for the price tag im sure that these benefits could be found from other sources already in my soil. and for a lot cheaper.
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
all natural said:
hmm I swear i saw neem seed meal some where before. Naomi's does not carry it either I dont think. Where do you get this from ? I swear i have seen it before because I remember not buying it because i wasnt sure what to do with it. my only knowledge of neem was with the oil prior to this.
Click to expand...
You can buy Down-To-Earth Neem Seed Meal at several stores in Portland - no big deal.

CC
 
OrganicBuds

OrganicBuds

Active member
Veteran
Insect Frass is kind of like an insect vaccination. It triggers the plant to release natural defenses against bugs by introducing dead bugs. In theory this all sounds great, but I have heard of possible hermi issues with this product. I even talked with the owner at Max Yield Indoor Gardening Expo.
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Insect Frass As A Pathway For Transmission Of Bacterial Wilt Of Cucurbits

Department of Entomology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Abstract

Insects that vector diseases of plants are of critical concern to agriculture, but relationships between the vectors and pathogens often are poorly understood. In this study, we present research on vector relationships between the striped cucumber beetle, Acalymma vittatum (F.) (Coleoptera: Chrysomelidae), and the pathogen that causes bacterial wilt of cucurbits, Erwinia tracheiphila (Enterobacteriales: Enterobacteriaceae).

We studied how the bacteria were retained in the gut of the beetle by developing a polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based technique for extracting and identifying bacterial DNA in the frass.

Bacterial DNA usually was present in the frass for 24 h after beetles had consumed inoculum but diminished quickly and was undetectable within 96 h. The amount of time that bacterial DNA could be detected in frass increased with the amount of inoculum and the length of time that beetles were exposed to inoculum and also varied with the strain of bacterium.

Frass that tested positive for bacterial DNA also was infective to cucumber plants, confirming that DNA was indicative of viable bacteria and that frass could be a pathway for transmission of the pathogen. This research suggests that few cucumber beetles serve as long-term vectors of the pathogen and that aggregation of the beetle on host plants may be critical for initiating plant infections in spring
Click to expand...
 
S

SeaMaiden

all natural said:
Hi I have just recently read about insect frass and purchased a small amount to try, about a half a pound of it. I have only watered a few plants with it so far. the claims about insect frass are intereseting and I was wondering if any of you organic growers have used it? and what your thoughts on this product are? here is a statement on the onfrass.com website about insect frass:

Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”). Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.
Click to expand...

I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on bug poo. However, I have used the sand bedding from our gecko's cage (fed mostly on crickets & mealworms) and observed excellent vegetative growth of the plants where it was top-dressed.

My mother breeds bearded dragons, if only I could easily get a hold of her leftover bedding.
 
cyat

cyat

Well-known member
Veteran
Ahrite, heres my take..... dont waste your money!

I had over 100lbs and their liquid extracts, every combo was tried, like mixing it in and or topdress plus teas, and liquids....

It does nothing against bugs esp. fungus gnats/ root aphids........

oh wait it does do something.... hatch nasty little insects.. fuckin gross

2nd 50lb bag- straight to the dump

have fun
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
cyat said:
Ahrite, heres my take..... dont waste your money!

I had over 100lbs and their liquid extracts, every combo was tried, like mixing it in and or topdress plus teas, and liquids....

It does nothing against bugs esp. fungus gnats/ root aphids........

oh wait it does do something.... hatch nasty little insects.. fuckin gross

2nd 50lb bag- straight to the dump

have fun
Click to expand...
Thank you.....
 
Oregonism

Oregonism

Active member
This makes me want to continue my composting w/ slugs :experiments. No selective diets for those little f'ers, they get pitched anything and its results in a pretty damn good looking loam.....

It looks like the frass has some questions, but the concept is interesting.
 
M

MrSterling

Just spent the evening segregating and cleaning the mealworm bins. Must have close to twenty pounds of frass here.
 
W

wintergreens

Member
I cleaned my mealworm colonys three weeks ago, retrayed frass with a layer of wheat bran and some cut potatoes. Just looked, thousands of small mealies had hatched and are readys to rescreen frass. Been useing in my tea brewing.
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Insect frass is not the same thing or even close to worm castings regardless of how many times the BSF crowd tries to claim that it is.

I have seen BSF larva used in commercial worm bin operations where the frass will be processed like any other raw manure - because that's what it is - manure.
 
M

MrSterling

Can we differentiate between what sort of frass we are discussing? Some of us are discussing mealworm frass, I remember one of the older members talking about cricket frass months ago too. I don't believe all frass is created equal. I need to find somewhere to get this mealworm frass sent off to be tested for microbial life or what have you.
 
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