Mk VII Terpenator

Gray Wolf · May 11, 2014

Behold the Mk VII, which includes inline dewaxing and produces its own refrigeration for doing so.

The column flushes both directions through the column and directs the flow to a top pot, where the temperature is reduced by evaporating away enough solvent under vacuum to produce the refrigeration required. More clean solvent is added as needed and the process is controlled by thermocouple and PID controller.

When the desired temperature is reached and held for the required time, valves are opened, which allow the mixture to flow down through a filter section, to a lower pot, where the solvent is removed and the oil recovered.

We have a joint R&D project to develop filtration for both the waxes and unwanted darker polar elements, but until that culminates, the filter section can be a simple sock filter, followed by polishing filters.

Sorry for the dual pictures of the same drawing. The second isn't a thumbnail, but is still pretty small.

kingj · May 11, 2014

Sweet. Ive been following your posts for over a year, just wanted to say thanks for everything you share. Really rare to find people that share the info instead of strain/knowledge hoarding. Kudos
How far away is this?

Lono · May 11, 2014

Awesome stuff GW!

Can't wait to see more on this unit

HashoftheTitans · May 11, 2014

Love it! What size system are you going to do for your first build? How much extra time do you think it will add to the process? What recovery pump are you planning on using? Can't wait to see the build out.

Gray Wolf · May 12, 2014

HashoftheTitans said:
Love it! What size system are you going to do for your first build? How much extra time do you think it will add to the process? What recovery pump are you planning on using? Can't wait to see the build out.

The design is for a 4" X 36" spool. I already have most of the parts, but will have to pick up a few parts from Glacier.

Chilling down the top tank shouldn't take more than a few minutes and vacuum filtration less than five, so in Heaven, it may add less than fifteen minutes.

I will start out using one of our existing pumps to try it out, but given the recent progress using a diaphragm pump, I see one of those and something else backing it up.

We are currently trying out a Promax 6000, having already tried the Microvac, Appion G-5, CPS-TR-21, and the Diablo. So far, except for being loudest yet, it is doing a good job.

JColtrane · May 13, 2014

Looks good GW ... been using a top down feature too, ala MKIV. Been flooding, isolate, recover to -10, dump, recover to -10, top down flood for 20 sec, recover -22. Did this for a while, and recently I did a few runs where I needed to get done quick, and cut out the top down flood ... yeild was the same. I'm not sure the top down is doing much other than traping butane in my column that my Appion has a bitch recovering :/

JColtrane · May 13, 2014

Another feature that I've really been wanting to intall is a Thermowell so we can start to tell the temps inside our chamber, and really know whats going on!!!

Permacultuure · May 13, 2014

GW Whats filters are you planning on using? Diameter? Micron? cutting lab filters to size is no fun........In my trials and errors I evaporated too much off, which complicated everything from that point.

dopecook · May 13, 2014

this is awesome! using the butane to chill itself is the key! i am sort of at a loss of how the chilling chamber works. could it be done manually without the PID/automation?

I will follow this thread closely as we are building two large units now, and would like to be able to upgrade them with this system later.

<3 u GW

HashoftheTitans · May 13, 2014

I'm guessing it could be done by switching valves manually and monitoring pressure and temperature, but I'm thinking it would take some practice doing it as efficiently as an automated controller.

RHH · May 13, 2014

Keep up the good work!

dopecook · May 13, 2014

i think i understand the concept at least now.... ty HOTT

Sextracts · May 13, 2014

It seems to me it would be most efficient to build a closed Buchner, where you could have a terpenator type design with a detachable collection pot. You could shoot your tane through the material and recover 30%-50%, detach your collection pot, set it in a cooler with dry ice to freeze the fats and lipids out for desired time, pull out of freezer and run through your closed Buchner than recover. For the closed Buchner I have a handwritten blueprint, it will basically be a sight glass with micron screens on either side that can attach to the collection pot on either side. You will have a clean collection pot on the bottom of the sight glass and your wax/oil filled collection pot on top of the sight glass, pull a vacuum on the sight glass and bottom collection pot, open the valve to allow the tane to flow through the micron screens and sight glass, close valve on bottom collection pot and recover. Leaving your fats and lipids above the sight glass in the original collection pot and your dewaxed goodness in the bottom collection pot. I realize this would require multiple collection pots but it would be an efficient way to not tie your machine up during dewaxing.

Gray Wolf · May 14, 2014

Permacultuure said:
GW Whats filters are you planning on using? Diameter? Micron? cutting lab filters to size is no fun........In my trials and errors I evaporated too much off, which complicated everything from that point.

Still working on the filtration section. Planning to start with a 10 micron poly felt bag filter like these http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/bagfilters.php.

The composition of the back up filters, will be determined by our R&D program, but we are experimenting with both silicon and aluminum molecular sieve beads.

Gray Wolf · May 14, 2014

JColtrane said:
Another feature that I've really been wanting to intall is a Thermowell so we can start to tell the temps inside our chamber, and really know whats going on!!!

The Mk V-2 has a thermowell, as does the Mk VI and VII

Gray Wolf · May 14, 2014

dopecook said:
this is awesome! using the butane to chill itself is the key! i am sort of at a loss of how the chilling chamber works. could it be done manually without the PID/automation?

I will follow this thread closely as we are building two large units now, and would like to be able to upgrade them with this system later.

<3 u GW

Easy to run manually.

Gray Wolf · May 14, 2014

Sextracts said:
It seems to me it would be most efficient to build a closed Buchner, where you could have a terpenator type design with a detachable collection pot. You could shoot your tane through the material and recover 30%-50%, detach your collection pot, set it in a cooler with dry ice to freeze the fats and lipids out for desired time, pull out of freezer and run through your closed Buchner than recover. For the closed Buchner I have a handwritten blueprint, it will basically be a sight glass with micron screens on either side that can attach to the collection pot on either side. You will have a clean collection pot on the bottom of the sight glass and your wax/oil filled collection pot on top of the sight glass, pull a vacuum on the sight glass and bottom collection pot, open the valve to allow the tane to flow through the micron screens and sight glass, close valve on bottom collection pot and recover. Leaving your fats and lipids above the sight glass in the original collection pot and your dewaxed goodness in the bottom collection pot. I realize this would require multiple collection pots but it would be an efficient way to not tie your machine up during dewaxing.

Easy to dewax by conventional means, but the beauty of the Mk VII, is that you don't need dry ice or a freezer.

Lono · May 14, 2014

Gray Wolf said:
Easy to dewax by conventional means, but the beauty of the Mk VII, is that you don't need dry ice or a freezer.

Hey GW, just wanted to add that I saw bret mention another benefit of the inline dewaxing is it pleases the fire marshal(no open gasses). Says the fire marshal won't allow open gases so inline dewaxing is the only way he can do it.

Do you think as time goes on and regulations continue to develop, inline dewaxing will become mandatory everywhere? Are open gases even allowed in OR, CA, or CO?

Obviously for those of us doing it at home, pleasing the fire marshal doesn't really matter.

dopecook · May 14, 2014

Inline Dewaxing won't be mandatory, because dewaxing won't be.
If you CHOOSE to dewax, I'm sure they won't want you pouring a bunch of liquid butane through a chinese buchner funnel hooked up to a vacuum pump...

Right now though, there's no fire marshals in Washington telling Bret Maverick anything because no one has a license yet. He makes a good point though, and I think he's right. Either way it should be inline. Safety is the key to long term success.

I like this idea of using the butane to cool dewax. I used to do the same thing when we open air extracted... Just leave the collection "tank" out for a while and the sides would be caked with powder before we poured.

I've spent probably 1k on dry ice this year. I've just tried of just wasting gas and $, wether it be butane or Co2...

I think Sextracts' (Lono had the same idea) method is the best in the mean time.

JColtrane · May 14, 2014

^think you got it right about the cost elemnt of it ... these are hard to recoop.

I love people going out, and getting their message out ... but when people that just shoot out a whole bunch of so called "facts" w/o anything to back it up ... next thing you know, everyone is saying it. ugh

Mk VII Terpenator

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

Attachments

New member

Member

Member

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

Member

Member

Member