Brown spots and tips drying need help new in hydro

[romuros]

I have just started my first attempt with hydro. I have ebb'n'flow 5 gal buckets.
Issue is that plants are starting to get brown spots and tips plus lower leaves are slowly drying.
I was started from seeds Critical+ plus some Cheese from dynafem Seeds Company.
They sprout on 3.3.2012 and now they are in system for 12 days.
They are in RW cubes and i use clay pebbles as medium.
Lights are grolux 600W HID and are run in cycle 18/6. I have two lamps but running in cycles for two hours each.
I am using GH nutes flora bloom and flora micro based on Lucas formula with half strength which make 1.5ecc on my ec meter.
I have constant problem with PH since i have to adjust almost every day. Its strange since after correction in res to 5.5-5.8 next day it's 6.2-6.4 again. This is happening from beginning. I use Eco Plant PH- for growth.
I have 66gall res with constant 68F temperature.
Temperature in grow area is from 73-78 when lights on and 68 when off.
I try to keep humidity high but in average is 55.
Any help is welcome since i search through old posts and books but couldn’t find right answer. Could be deficiency or nute burn.

 

[hempfield]

Those are signs of nutrient burns. EC 1.5 is way to high for the size of your plants. Lower it to half strength and they should recover in one or two days. Did you inspect the roots also ? I bet there is some brown slime on them.

Always remember that "less is better".

 

[romuros]

I thouht so since this is value i use in soil in second period in flowering. I don't have any real expirience in hydro only what i can learn from reading posts from people that why i use Lucas formula as shoul be easy for new growers. I still cant figure out why such hi ecc with more than half strenght of nutes that is recomended from Lucas.
Do you think PH rising problems are also due to hi ec value?

 

[hempfield]

A little quote of a fellow grower here on IC and other forums also :

If your ph and ec was stable before your last res change but now the ec is rising it would be better to keep the plant where she was happy and maybe drop her back

The rule of thumb is :

ec up ph down = less feed
ph up ec down = increase feed
ec stable ph stable = happy plant

 

[TheArchitect]

.8 ec for fresh babies.

1 ec for small plants

1.2 ec full flower.


With this I see a .02 ec drop(10 ppm at .5 conversion) everyday, the ph slowly creeps up.

I add back full strength nutrients to top off. Swap the system every 3-4 weeks depending on how the plants and res are reacting.

 

[TheArchitect]

I should add I'm in rdwc. In that e&f system you may be able to run up to 1.5 ec, but they need to be well established, and the environment dialed.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I am using GH nutes flora bloom and flora micro based on Lucas formula with half strength which make 1.5ecc on my ec meter.

I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly? Half-strength lucas is reading 1.5 on your ec meter?

I take it you're not using R/O water... what's the ec of your plain tap-water?

Personally? I recommend full-strength lucas (when using their flora series) for everything, including sprouts that are at least 10 days old. Full lighting of course. Right now your plants don't have enough food... only half your ec is food, the other half is???

Keep in mind that a plant that's getting less than 50% of what they need... will begin eating nutes from its old leaves to support new growth.

Stay Safe!

 

[DonJuanMatus]

+1 on too much food

but also , if i were you, id ph my rez down to 5.3 so when it does rise it doesnt go past 6.0..that will give you a full ph swing and full nutrient availability...and imo a swing is much better than a locked in ph..having the ph higher than 6.0 is gonna create lockout

 

[TheArchitect]

if what hydrosoil is getting at is true, you probably have an alkalinity problem with your source water...

 

[romuros]

First thanks for all your help

I went today and buy new EC meter since imy old was realy old and from whats happend i didnt have any trust in it.
I did few tests with 10l of water.
Looks like Hydro soil has a point.
My tap water has PH 7,4 and EC 0,42mS.
After adding full strenght lucas formula 0-8-16 i got EC 1,92mS. If i take off water EC i get 1,5mS which should be correct. I did first adjust PH of water and after adding nutes PH didnt change. I set it at 5,4 and will let it to rise till 6.
So i will empty my res and go again with full strenght.
Do you also suggest to go with full lights (1,2k)as they aren't so young any more.
Any other suggestion will be grate.
Thanks again for help will get back with resoult.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Yeah... my tap water is about the same.

Without going R/O... I'd suggest trying hardwater micro with your setup. Really prefer R/O but there are some places that the hardwater formula will work out for you. Just not optimal.

Go with full lighting... They can sprout under the sun and in full lighting, why skimp.

Stay Safe!

 

[romuros]

Hi
Here is quick brief of what is happaning now in my sistem.
EC is now stable on 1.5mS. PH is rising every day for 0.5 so i lower it for same amount so i get it daily from 5.4 to 5.9. I still geting those brown spots but girls seems to grow real fast now.
I am using hardwater micro now as suggested.
I also noticed that new leavs have yelow tips but plants are looking happy.
Will post pictures as soon lights go out. I am now going with full lihgt 1,2k

 

[romuros]

Hi
I take some pictures of babys.
I am still having slight problem due to rising ph. After every watering cicle ph rise for 0.4
I left it from 5.3 to 6 and than lover it back to 5.3-5.4.
Otherwise they are growing fast and i hope that tips and dots are leftover from past problems since i dont see any new issues on younger leavs.
I am watering them every 4 hours for flood and drain cicle of 30min.
They are now 22 days old. I will veg them for one more week and then switch to 12/12.
EC is stable all the time at 1,5mS

 

[roll it large]

they seem fine now and don't worry about the ph swing keep doing it like you are
once there in full flower mode around wk4 12-12 you will see less of an increase in the ph once they start using up the K

this is a good indicator for when to add pk when you get less of a swing or a drop in ph

peace

 

[romuros]

Thanks again for all help. It's difficult to change the way i was thinking about growing after 15 years soil grows. I wasn't interested in hydro growing before so i never pay attention to it. Feel like i am born again
It looks so complicated at the beggining but as more i read about it more sense it make.
Babys are growing so fast now in compere to two i have in soil for mother plant i can't belive it.
They are about 12 inches high now so i am thinking to switch to 12/12 earlier since i only have 70 inces to lights avalible and i don't wana risk they get to close to light.
Befor i let them for 16 inces i get them just right hight at end so lights didn't burn them but as fast as they grow now they will probably grow to high. Cant wait to see them streching in flower period
Thanks again for all imput. I should probably open new thread and run it as grow diary for all new hydro growers having same problems.

 

[TheArchitect]

Yea, tbh I hate soil indoors. It's messy, heavy, it's easier to get a bug infestation and harder to get rid of them, it takes forever to get a good root system and plant size etc.

Water inside, dirt outside.

 

[Smoke 101]

Your plants look overwatered to me, how many hours sleep are they getting on your veg?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

That's a good point. Shouldn't need to have the flood and drain going throughout the dark period.

15-20 minutes before lights on is around what I usually used. YMMV

Stay Safe!

 

[romuros]

hi
i have them on 18/6 cycle. Looks you got the point since i water them every 4 hours for 15 min flood and then also take another 15 min to drain. They was watered one hour befor lighst go off and again in the midle of resting time. I do some research on this before i start but oppinions on subject was so different that i couldnt decide so i went with every four hour as suggested by user on whos plans i was building my controler bucket. Seems what worked for him doesnt work for me
I went through your post Hydro-soil and got feeling you now what your talking about as expirience hydro user so i will be hapy to take your advice on feeding cycle.
I have lights on from 19h-13h and off from 13h-19h. Do you think it's ok if i set feeding
to start at 18.45 and than on every four hours. Thats mean that there will be no feeding 2 hours before lights go off and all resting period. Will not be 8 hours without water too much dry?
Any other users are welcom to comment too about their expirience. I use 5 gal buckets with clay peables.
What about feeding when i will switch to 12/12?
I know best way is to wach the ladys and determine what they need but some starting point will be nice to know from expirience users.

 

[Smoke 101]

Just out of curiosity why do you have two lights cycling in 2 hour periods?

Perhaps "such hi ecc with more than half strenght of nutes that is recomended from Lucas" is because there are some of the plant nutrients in tap water already.

I would look up the pH of clay pebbles to see if they are causing the water to go up on draining. I would be interested to know if this happens with a perlite medium, you could experiment. My setup is less advanced than yours so I cannot find out these answers myself! As for the feeding times, seriously bro they don't need it every 8 hours until they get much bigger.