Molasses - Doses and times

[Billy Burroughs]

Hi,

In researching using molasses I am finding a lot of info but not much consistency.

I am reading both 1 teaspoon per gallon and 1 tablespoon per gallon.

The times are running from every watering to only one or 2.

So what is the consensus 1 teaspoon or tablespoon per gallon and how often?

Assume the plants are outside and in the ground.

so we cross paths again but ive always used molasses theres a couple things to remeber the type of molasses you want is organic blackstrap molasses you can also buy blackstrap molasses from feed stores in bulk the only difference between the kind you can buy at a store like whole foods is the feed stores has sulphur in it just to keep ppl from eating it wouldnt want someone getting away with not paying to play but ive never used it because no one around here sells it it's like 5 bucks for 5 gallons instead of 7 dollars for 32 ounces in the grocery store my brothers used it oh for about 8 years now and still hasnt used 5 gallons we use 2-3 tablespoons per gallon of water starting the 30th day of flower and continuing on to harvest that and carbs are only "nutes" that i feed up to harvest i run ammended soil so i dont really get a flush no need to for one and two you cant flush something thats already in the soil but ya molasses is an awesome thing to use has been used in gardening for thousands of years

the only other nutes i feed are a worm tea of 0-3-0 and a liquid steamed bone meal at 0-12-0 and this is fed with the molasses and carbs but only on day 30 and day 45 of the flower cycle

 

[Billy Burroughs]

hoosierdaddy i like you grew up with livestock and like i posted above my brother uses feed store molasses has for a good 10 years due to price i dunno what kinda feed stores your deling with but they sound like they're owned and operated by foreiners because i dont know of any feed stores in the willamette valley which is in the eugene oregon area that would add anything to the molasses they get in the big vats especially soap soap gives animals and people alike the runs and an animal with the runs is going to become a dehydrated animal right like i said my brother bought a 5 gallon bucket from the feed store we've been going to since before we can remeber and only thing added to it like i mentioned before is sulphur and yes maybe a very small amount of water to thin it so the sulphur disolves and mixes in properlly in fact they get the molasses with no sulphur in it they;re required by the usda to add the sulphur to it before they can sell it it's a deal of bring your own bucket and they gotta big ass vat of it you just put your bucket down and away it goes i've tried to get them to send me a bucketr but they willn't dont want the responsibility of it spilling enroute if there was a feed store around here that sold it i'd deffinatelly be over there buying it for a dollar a gallon instead of about 30 bucks a gallon but to each there own

 

[hoosierdaddy]

mistress, I can't find the link that was supposed to accompany the profile you provided, so I have no idea what "brand" was being looked at. And surely we don't think that a single profile is going to be indicative of all the feedstock molasses' out there?
And yes, to each his own rules here...and all people need are facts.
Many state don't use sulfured molasses, you state the plant needs it. (shrug)
Are you also suggesting that other brands of feedstock bs don't add oils or soaps or preservatives, or mold inhibitors? And one would have to research these things, as I highly doubt any feed mill or feed store is going to have the profiles of stuff in a bulk vat, or even info on a bucket.

billy, I didn't make the suggestion that the feed store was doing any cutting. I said distributors. There are usually at least couple of hands who may have and transport the stuff before it hits the feed mill. I also question why you use so much per dose...I know for a fact that 2-3 tablespoons is a pretty big volume of the stuff and makes pretty sticky mess. I have had good luck using it at 1teaspoon/gal throughout the grow. Why would the benefits of it not be seen during all stages of growth? It is not a bud builder...as hydro stores and others may suggest. It does feed sugars, but sugars are needed throughout the grow. Same for feeding microbes...they get hungry before flower, yes?

 

[*mistress*]

mistress, I can't find the link that was supposed to accompany the profile you provided, so I have no idea what "brand" was being looked at.

there is no link... did not provide brand, or comp name... for certain reasons.

And surely we don't think that a single profile is going to be indicative of all the feedstock molasses' out there?

that is not what was presented, nor implied...
the implication is that there do exist blackstrap molasses, that do not include extraneous chemicals/additives in their product.
just have to find them...

And yes, to each his own rules here...and all people need are facts.
Many state don't use sulfured molasses, you state the plant needs it. (shrug)

sulfur is not an issue w/ plants. it is a macroelement... that plants use... ieg: sulfates, which are in nearly every fertilizer on market... sulfer is issue for humans due to the taste... they (molasses mfg's) use it to make molasses out of 'green', or young sugar cane, as opposed to the 3 burns of regular black strap.

fwiw, sulfer is included in human molasses, just not to the levels that would mandate it be listed as harmful... just like there is arsenic & other materials in some regular fertilizers... just not to harful levels...

or, rather, not to levels regulating its listing on the labels.
have to seek out & find what is best, as in all things.

Are you also suggesting that other brands of feedstock bs don't add oils or soaps or preservatives, or mold inhibitors?

suggest that gardeners do independent research into any item they use in their garden/on their plants...
whether it be food/feed grades, or even regular fertilizers...

 

[STRAINZ]

Mistress vs. Hoosierdaddy...sounds like a good porn! JK, couldn't resist

 

[hoosierdaddy]

that is not what was presented, nor implied...
the implication is that there do exist blackstrap molasses, that do not include extraneous chemicals/additives in their product.
just have to find them...

See, you were implying that using feed grade molasses was a fine thing to do. Which was obviously a blanket statement about feed grade molasses since you hadn't made any distinctions to suggest otherwise.

And what I am saying is that you can come across feed stock molasses that may have any number of additives that we may not want for horticulture purposes.
I know that my time is far too valuable to try and research such things, especially when I know that there are alternatives that are for certain trusted without question.

I cannot for the life of me figure why you wouldn't want to reveal the brand of molasses that the nutrient profile you posted touted?
(oh well)

 

[NiteTiger]

Because she doesn't actually do it Hoosier. She has 'ideas' but no experience, yet she acts as if she knows what she is doing.

I learned this real quick when we crossed paths in several threads where she was actually giving advice that could, and would kill plants.

She ought to have a warning label on her posts. As it is, it's up to us to try to correct her 'well intentioned' information with actual facts and applicable experience.

 

[BLUNToPOTomuss]

1tsp EVERY WATERING have NEVER had cal mag def's. I also use FFOF straight never cut

 

[BLUNToPOTomuss]

.

 

[Aerokush101]

Don't tell anyone but I had more success with soy milk...

***you know I'm just joking, right?***

 

[NickMode]

Lets try and stay on topic people.... this is a good informative thread.

 

[*mistress*]

See, you were implying that using feed grade molasses was a fine thing to do.

there are no implications. posted raw data & that it. feed grade molasses works well for plants. period. end.
you dispute this. that is all.

Which was obviously a blanket statement about feed grade molasses

?
no... not obvious blanket statement... there are many types of molasses... both human & animal types. it is up to gardenr to selct the best for them.

since you hadn't made any distinctions to suggest otherwise.

fwiw... actually did entire nutrient profile for that (human moalsses w/ most available nutrients). ppm per gal, etc...there are plenty suggestions, here:
calculating npk/nutrient profile

wh0lesomE sveeteners organic molasses
per 1 tablespoon/22 g, in 1 gallon of water/3.785 liters:

potassium: 730 mg/~20% of 3500 mg dv for k/730/3.785=192.86 ppm

calcium: 115 mg/~10% of 1000 mg dv for ca/115/3.785=30.38 ppm

magnesium: 8% of 400 mg dv for mg/.08*400=32/3.785=8.4 ppm

iron: 15% of 18 mg dv for fe/.15*18=2.7/3.785=0.71 ppm

*vitamin b6: 10% of 2.0 mg dv for vit b6/2*.1=.2/3.785=.05 ppm

*sugars: 10g

*total carbohydrates: 14g

along w/ that nutrient profile, other types of molasses listed.

made the distinction that gardeners should look into any item, to find more than on label.

And what I am saying is that you can come across feed stock molasses that may have any number of additives that we may not want for horticulture purposes.

like what?
there are brand nute comps that get violations all the time, for failing to reach levels listed on bottles. but, most never research this...
there are comps that list 16% nitrogen, when only 14% found.
of l-amino acids, when none are found, by lab.

but, this not found unless seek. that is point. end.

I know that my time is far too valuable to try and research such things, especially when I know that there are alternatives that are for certain trusted without question.

your time is valuble... use it to find the actual ingredients of whatever used. before acquiring.

I cannot for the life of me figure why you wouldn't want to reveal the brand of molasses that the nutrient profile you posted touted?
(oh well)

some things, trade secrets... just like many fert formulations.

but, did not begin w/ that profile. made point to find it before acquiring it...

began, only this...guaranteed analysis/label:
crude protein 5.5% (crude protein/6.25=nitrogen content)
ash 10%
moisture 30%
total sugars invert 40%
brix 74% (this considered min brix for 'blackstrap' molasses)

full profile when requested...

the requirements of what is on label varies widely among regions.
but, it can be found.

 

[Dreamscape]

How many people use a bloom BOOSTER formula like topmax WITH molasses as well ???

Or is the general consensus to use one or the other ??

 

[NiteTiger]

I've used TopMaxx with molasses, but I haven't run it long enough to tell you anything more than it doesn't seem to cause a burn.

 

[Dreamscape]

sweeeeeT

thanks for the info

 

[hoosierdaddy]

mistress, what I disagree with are your rebuttals.
I see few points to be made other than you are wrong. Fist off, 79.5 BRIX is the going standard for blackstrap molasses, NOT 74 BRIX. Maybe we should be responsible enough to run a brix test at the feed mill to make sure we are seeing the sugars we are supposed to? Of course we would probably have to buy a bucket of it first, and then what do we do when we find that the blackstrap does not contain the sugar level stated because the distributor watered it down a bit?

Look, it is YOU that are making assertions that you cannot back up.
I know for a fact that molasses producers will put together a package that fits your needs and wants, including placing mold inhibitors, oils, preservatives, as well as surfactants and a number of other things including flavoring which can be produced by adding a variety of acids, and they don't have to list these things, nor report what they provided you with. The feed mill could also buy the stuff with their own formula and sell it in bulk, and they don't have to tell you squat. I am not for certain that the mfg of the molasses would have to tell you anything either.

Bottom line is this...
Blackstrap molasses can be bought for pretty cheap from feed suppliers, but we need to be careful when trying to save a penny or two because there can be things in the mixture that are not friendly to plant growth. It is just that simple. END (good grief)

the author of the article was no mistress brewer...

Hmmm...I am curious...from these words, and your screen name, one would assume you consider yourself to be a "mistress" pot grower. Is that the case?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Lets talk about doses...
This is the part that gets missed most often. The major mistake folks make is to confuse "tsp" with TBS". tsp is teaspoon, which is three times smaller than a TBS which is a tablespoon. 3tsp=1TBS

Now, all we ever get is what others do. Not often do you see any professional recommendations for feeding a molasses supplement, unless it is on the bottle of some hydro store amendments.

One molasses company that I know of produces blackstrap specifically for the use on golf course greens. (BTW, they definitely distinguish between feed grade and horticultural grade products)
Buffalo molasses, in upstate NY, recommends using their horticultural blackstrap at a rate of 3 ounces per 1000 square feet of turf.

Now, an assumption or two has to be made here without further contact of the company. One of them is that they are considering feeding turf grasses, and the topsoil in which they thrive is only going to be about 6-7 inches deep, and the mass of the roots will be within the first 4 inches of topsoil. So I will use 4 inches deep in further calculations...

Now lets' convert the ounces to smaller measurements....
1 ounce is equal to two tablespoons(TBS) or 6 teaspoons(tsp).
We know that they recommend 18 tsp for 1000 sq ft.
Or, 6 teaspoons full for 333 sq ft.
Converting sq ft into sq inches, we find that we need 6 teaspoons full to feed 3,996 sq inches of soil.
So, 1 tsp of blackstrap will feed 666 sq inches of soil at 4" depth.

For our needs we will usually have a root zone that penetrates the soil deeper than turf grasses do. Let's assume a pot or bag that is 8 inches square and 8 inches deep. That gives us a square footprint of 64 inches x 8 inches deep, which is double the depth of soil I am assuming for the turf grasses.

If 1tsp of blackstrap feeds 666sq inches at 4 inches depth, then the same tsp will feed 333 sq inches 8 inches deep.

If our 8x8 bag is 64 sq inches footprint, then we could effectively feed about 5 pots with 1 tsp of molasses.
Since as most folks mix per gallon, a one gallon container with a single teaspoon of blackstrap will feed 5 plants in 8x8x8 bags.

Now, I made an assumption of how deep the top soil is for Buffalo's calculations, but I am fairly confident that the numbers will be close to what I am suggesting, knowing that top soil only extends down no more than 6 inches or so.

And what I found was that the 1tsp per gallon that I was using is just about a spot on dosage.

 

[bigscoot]

great stufffffff right here

 

[montehierba]

MOLLASIS EVERY OTHER WATER GIVES ME NICE PHAT NUGGETZZZ.

 

[*mistress*]

Each season, the sugar cane plant is harvested, and stripped of its leaves. Its juice is then extracted from the canes (usually by crushing or mashing), boiled until it has reached the appropriate consistency, and processed to extract the sugar. The results of this first boiling and processing is first molasses, which has the highest sugar content because comparatively little sugar has been extracted from the juice. Second molasses is created from a second boiling and sugar extraction, and has a slight bitter tinge to its taste. Further rounds of processing and boiling yield blackstrap molasses, used in the manufacture of cattle feed, as well as having other industrial uses.

Cane Molasses is a by-product of the manufacture or refining of sucrose from sugar cane. Cane molasses purchased as an animal feed will contain more than 46% total sugars expressed as invert sugars. If its moisture content exceeds 27%, its density determined by double dilution must not be less than 79.50 Brix.

The molasses trade commonly use the term Brix as an indicator of specific gravity ..., represents an approximation of total solids content. Brix is a term originally initiated for pure sucrose solutions to indicate the percentage of sucrose in solution on a weight basis. However, in addition to sucrose, molasses contains glucose, fructose, raffinose and numerous non-sugar organic materials. Consequently, a Brix value for molasses will often differ dramatically from actual sugar or total solid content. In fact, Baker (1979) stated that, "With an impure sucrose solution such as molasses, Brix does not represent anything except a number denoting specific gravity and this cannot be related to either sucrose or dry matter content." Regardless, in the %&, Brix is used in the official definition of beet, citrus, starch and cane molasses.

mistress, what I disagree with are your rebuttals.

it already established that there is & would be no agreement.
nor does there have to be...

I see few points to be made other than you are wrong. Fist off, 79.5 BRIX is the going standard for blackstrap molasses, NOT 74 BRIX.

see above... brix does not really mean that.

Maybe we should be responsible enough to run a brix test at the feed mill to make sure we are seeing the sugars we are supposed to? Of course we would probably have to buy a bucket of it first, and then what do we do when we find that the blackstrap does not contain the sugar level stated because the distributor watered it down a bit?

that is the product of your imagination.

Look, it is YOU that are making assertions that you cannot back up.

?

I know for a fact that molasses producers will put together a package that fits your needs and wants, including placing mold inhibitors, oils, preservatives, as well as surfactants and a number of other things including flavoring which can be produced by adding a variety of acids, and they don't have to list these things, nor report what they provided you with. The feed mill could also buy the stuff with their own formula and sell it in bulk, and they don't have to tell you squat. I am not for certain that the mfg of the molasses would have to tell you anything either.

yes, they have to tell you...

in the beginning of the sentence, you stated, "I know for a fact..."
by the end of the paragraph, you state, "I am not for certain..."

because you actually havnt researched this field as extensively as you present. maybe...
in any event, your bias against feed grade molasses has been duly noted.
may be in order to also note, that your endorsement is not required...

Bottom line is this...

?
really...?
as if...
the bottom line?
as if you were the clearinghouse for bottomlines

Blackstrap molasses can be bought for pretty cheap from feed suppliers, but we need to be careful when trying to save a penny or two because there can be things in the mixture that are not friendly to plant growth. It is just that simple. END (good grief)

not about saving coins... about that these products are made in the same factory... the feed will be more bitter (less sugar), & have more mineral matter. the human type will be sweeter (more sugar, slightly).
chemically, physically, etc... they are same item.
whether gardener looks for further data from mfg or not is up to them, not hoosierdaddy, nor *mistress*...

there are regular nutes that have failed to meet guaranteed analysis requirements... but, this would not be known unless some gardener sought & found this data. same w/ molasses... or, anything else. so... yes, every item made has label & mfg has to disclose active & benign ingredients - upon request.

if dont request, but only assume, & speculate on net, then never know...

examples...fwiw:

metanaturals organic nitrogen (2009)
label guarantee 16%
lab results 14.01%

metanaturals organic bloom formula (2009)
label guarantee phosphate 5%
lab results 4.3%
label guarantee potash 5%
lab analysis 3.1%

advanced nutrients big bud 0-15-40 (2009)
label guarantee phosphate 15%
lab results 16.7%
label guarantee potash 40%
lab results 40.4%
label guarantee magnesium 7%
lab results 0.0148% (violation)
label guarantee l-arginine .8%
lab results .194% (vio)
label guarantee l-glysine .7%
lab results .146%
etc,
etc...

most gardeners expect the label to be correct, few actually check fruther. same w/ molasses... if took all of hoosierdaddy posts as correct, then feed grade all ... when not a fact. fact is, can find all sorts of ultra-organic animal feeds, even more reported & filtered, etc than many ferts...

either/or... up to gardenrs to make own selections - or not.
icmag supplying lots of data to sort thru, including this thread... wehter use human, or feed grade.

Hmmm...I am curious...from these words, and your screen name, one would assume you consider yourself to be a "mistress" *** grower. Is that the case?

no.
that would not be a consideration 1 could give to their own work... would have to come from independent reiveiw work w/ tomatoes, cucumbers etc... but, it has been relayed...