LED and BUD QUALITY

[Aristoned]

Tents are overrated. Making a tent sized box out of foam insulation sheets and lining the inside with reflective material is getting control of your heat with LED lighting without throwing away the efficiency gains because you're stuck running a heater.

Yep!

The tent is thin, but Gorilla makes the thickest tent on the market so it is literally the best I can do without building my own.

I ended up increasing the temperature in the home to lessen the strain on the heater. I’m keeping a variance of 2° F and 3% RH. The AC Infinity controller isn’t half-bad.

Cheers!

 

[Tsubaki30]

@Aristoned

Defo try insulating the bottom of your tent asap

Anything you can put between your floor and tent will help surprisingly well. I have few layers of good quality foam wrap, about 3mm thick sheets, that came as packing material so it doesn’t have to be anything fancy. There’s a noticeable difference in temps when you get the tent insulated from the cold floor.



Also pay attention to your ventilation as i mentioned, and how much cold air gets into the tent and perhaps how often. If there’s anything you could maybe do differently regarding ventilation might also save you some money on that electrical bill. Ventilation and air movement go hand in hand with rh% and temps.

Timers are a cheap solution for some rh% and temp control in tents as ventilation has dramatic effects on their environment and how air moves on the canopy inside. A small tent can be a difficult thing to really dial in.. esp during cold season, i know.

Try running your exhaust only for 10 min every 60-90min range. That’s what i do during cold season and it’s a big help with rh% and temps.

 

[Ttystikk]

Philips 860W CDM Allstart

Google Product Result

4100K 82,000 initial lumens at 860W... Which is achieved on a magnetic or low frequency square wave ballast running at 208V.

I ran them at 1000W (same magnetic ballast but 240V) for 95,000 initial lumens and slightly colder color temp. They ran great as a replacement for HPS in magnetic ballast. Remember, that wattage is bulb only; the magnetic ballast would eat another 100-180W.

They got their ass kicked by the same wattage of LED.

 

[Aristoned]

@Aristoned

Defo try insulating the bottom of your tent asap

Anything you can put between your floor and tent will help surprisingly well. I have few layers of good quality foam wrap, about 3mm thick sheets, that came as packing material so it doesn’t have to be anything fancy. There’s a noticeable difference in temps when you get the tent insulated from the cold floor.



Also pay attention to your ventilation as i mentioned, and how much cold air gets into the tent and perhaps how often. If there’s anything you could maybe do differently regarding ventilation might also save you some money on that electrical bill. Ventilation and air movement go hand in hand with rh% and temps.

Timers are a cheap solution for some rh% and temp control in tents as ventilation has dramatic effects on their environment and how air moves on the canopy inside. A small tent can be a difficult thing to really dial in.. esp during cold season, i know.

Try running your exhaust only for 10 min every 60-90min range. That’s what i do during cold season and it’s a big help with rh% and temps.

There is a tent layer, a catch-basin layer, carpet and the foam under the carpet. I’d like to cut the carpet back so the hydroponic reservoir could sit directly on the concrete to reduce the temperature of the nutrient solution.

The ventilation barely runs at normal temperature (<85° F) and begins to ramp up at 85° F. The tent will always have a negative pressure to prevent leaks. The VPD is spot-on, I’m maintaining an average of 1.2 kPa. Last night I ended up turning the heat up in the entire place. I didn’t want to run the whole place ~78° F.

The tent is running on an electronic controller for the extractor, heater, humidifier and illumination. The two circulation fans are set-and-forget.

Lights-on: ~84° F / 70% RH
Lights-out: ~70° F / 60% RH

Those parameters seems to be within operational specification.

Cheers!

 

[Ttystikk]

Yep!

The tent is thin, but Gorilla makes the thickest tent on the market so it is literally the best I can do without building my own.

I ended up increasing the temperature in the home to lessen the strain on the heater. I’m keeping a variance of 2° F and 3% RH. The AC Infinity controller isn’t half-bad.

Cheers!

Sheets of insulation come in the same sizes as plywood, so 4x8' is standard.

Four sheets, each with the top 2' cut off, taped in a vertical square. Use the leftovers; tape 2 together to make floor and ceiling.

Choose one side to cut your door; cut the "hinge side" very straight so you can tape the outside only and that becomes the hinge you can open the door with.

If you're using foam board that does not have a reflective side, use mylar or panda plastic to make the walls reflective.

Use 1x2" wood strips corner to corner in the roof to hold the box square and to provide mounting points for *light* equipment such as your lighting fixture and a fan. It won't be strong enough for a filter.

Cut holes near the bottom and near the top for air exchange. Do the hinge thing on those to regulate airflow. Cut them to fit whatever fans or ducting you're using.

Voila! Insulated "tent" that's rigid and cheaper than bullshit fabric tents from the grow store.

 

[Ttystikk]

Defo try insulating the bottom of your tent asap

Insulating the bottom of a tent won't make much difference in temperature; heat rises, so insulating sides and top is much more effective. Think about ice fishing tents...

 

[Ca++]

I have wooden floor, rubber crumb, carpet then that jigsaw foam floor. Mostly to decouple the tent from the building, for noise. My air comes comes in the room door, past the tent, so using something like clothes pegs at the tents external seams, I have held bubblewrap around the closed sides. This has reduced a cool spot effectively.
I still follow the HID route, or air in the bottom, out the top. LEDs loose so much by convection, it's straight out the exhaust though. I have also started using fans to get that heat back down. I even ducted from the top to the bottom with it's own fan. Ensuring better stratospheric mixing.

I always thought I would make a box, but tent access is good, and if the police come, it's less new information for them. A friend was busted, and they tried to say he boarded a loft, that had a Victorian floor. They will inflate stories to make it look like we did more. So I'm stuck on tents these days. Duvets on roofs draping down, and such.

5500K would interest Sat growers. It's probably eliminated stretch response.
If you switch from LED to HPS (or add it as I do) the new growth really shows the difference. It seems almost paper thin, and HPS grows nearly always have ripped leaves. LED grows with a ripped leaf have us bug hunting, but with HPS you know you snagged it. The blue thickens the upper layer specifically. It might appear the leaf is darker, more shine from the waxy nature. A healthy look that's really superficial.

2f and 3%RH regulation is tight

The controller 67 will turn an EC fan up&down to regulate RH, regardless of temp iirc. They need modding to run PC fans though. Smell containment can demand extract never stops completely, but there is another way for small grows of say 240w in a tent. You insulate all you can, and run two fans in your duct. A PC fan on 3-12v variable psu. It's set to a low speed, so that RH will eventually get too high. It runs always. The second fan gets an inkbird like RH stat. So it comes on, only when the first fan does let the RH creep too high.
This two fan, one RH controller, is a cheap and fairly uncomplicated approach. Giving both automated RH control, and a constant trickle for the filter.

I'm not sure about using timers, when a stat is in the same price range, and just does it. Lights on/lights off. Though changing plant sizes and weather. It just gives the RH wanted. The timer is cheaper, but like $20 cheaper, and it needs constant reprogramming, for a result that's just not as tight. It feels like making a job out of something that would be better automated. Stomata don't have a very fast responce rate, so a closely tracked RH is a good thing.


The "Philips 860W CDM Allstart" is a new one on me. It looks like a CMH retrofit. You need 1000w magnetic control gear, to run the 860w CMH.
82,000 lumens for 860w is a bit weak. Their 600w greenpower HPS is 92,000 and still under 2umol/w which is poor by LED standards.
I used some conversion lamps once. They were for 600w mag gear, but I'm not sure if that meant the lamp got 600w, or just wanted the voltage a 600w gets. I do know they were expensive things to be putting in the bin 3 weeks later.

 

[Ttystikk]

The "Philips 860W CDM Allstart" is a new one on me. It looks like a CMH retrofit. You need 1000w magnetic control gear, to run the 860w CMH.
82,000 lumens for 860w is a bit weak. Their 600w greenpower HPS is 92,000 and still under 2umol/w which is poor by LED standards.

They made better weed because more blue made more frost. Everyone agreed on this point so it wasn't a personal bias.

They were a great stepping stone to LED because I could use the same magnetic ballasts the HPS did and they lasted longer.

Agreed that they weren't the most efficient choice. I kept a couple to play with in case I ever get a wild hair but I'm all about the LED these days.

I have different ideas about heat management than most but that's another topic.

 

[Ca++]

Insulating the bottom of a tent won't make much difference in temperature; heat rises, so insulating sides and top is much more effective. Think about ice fishing tents...

I see your logic. If a floor is cold, heat upon it is lost. Often a body absorbs heat, and once warm it gives off heat. Even though it may seem like a reflector. You may of noticed thermal imaging can't see through windows. Yet they are warm.
This means your floor can be a sizable area of loss. An area that might be cold anyway, if your tent is a screen of green. Mine is much like that, so this area around the pots is at the mercy of my inlet air. It's here under my plants, I have heating concerns. An actually heater (200w) and insulated sides. That floor is a big area of this space below the canopy.
Cold roots are not great either. Many a crops been stunted by pots on concrete.

 

[Ttystikk]

I see your logic. If a floor is cold, heat upon it is lost. Often a body absorbs heat, and once warm it gives off heat. Even though it may seem like a reflector. You may of noticed thermal imaging can't see through windows. Yet they are warm.
This means your floor can be a sizable area of loss. An area that might be cold anyway, if your tent is a screen of green. Mine is much like that, so this area around the pots is at the mercy of my inlet air. It's here under my plants, I have heating concerns. An actually heater (200w) and insulated sides. That floor is a big area of this space below the canopy.
Cold roots are not great either. Many a crops been stunted by pots on concrete.

It's only a problem if the concrete is colder than 60F and the water your hydro system runs on is also below 60F. I have lots of experience with cold concrete floors in Colorado!

Anyway, we were discussing keeping the air warmer in the tent which is why I offered the suggestions I did.

 

[Tsubaki30]

@Aristoned

Noticed just now that you have that carper rug under there which already serves as some insulation, so that’s probably good enough as it is, mate. I missed that the first time



Also at first i didn’t see the other circulating fan in your tent, the lower one behind the plant.

You have similar sized tent as i do and i doubt you need two fans in there. For me just one 15cm fan creates a lot of air movement. In smaller sized tents you don’t need very much to make the air move in a big way because the walls and ceiling are so close.

I’d keep just the upper one and have it where it is now but direct it more towards the light to get that warm air circulating around the tent little better. Warm air rises and for us led growers it’s no good if it’s stays mostly in the upper part of the tent. we need all the help we can get when it comes to temps and rh%, so it’s good to get that warm upper air moving around

Small tents are always a struggle ..with hps it’s too hot lots of time even with cooltube ..with leds and ventilation temps and rh% can be trick to get right esp in winter time .

 

[Aristoned]

@Aristoned

Noticed just now that you have that carper rug under there which already serves as some insulation, so that’s probably good enough as it is, mate. I missed that the first time



Also at first i didn’t see the other circulating fan in your tent, the lower one behind the plant.

You have similar sized tent as i do and i doubt you need two fans in there. For me just one 15cm fan creates a lot of air movement. In smaller sized tents you don’t need very much to make the air move in a big way because the walls and ceiling are so close.

I’d keep just the upper one and have it where it is now but direct it more towards the light to get that warm air circulating around the tent little better. Warm air rises and for us led growers it’s no good if it’s stays mostly in the upper part of the tent. we need all the help we can get when it comes to temps and rh%, so it’s good to get that warm upper air moving around

Small tents are always a struggle ..with hps it’s too hot lots of time even with cooltube ..with leds and ventilation temps and rh% can be trick to get right esp in winter time .

In my region I could run an HPS in that tent, it gets cold enough. I also have provisions for a cool-tube if I get into it. I have two flowering luminaires I’m building soon from EB3 Slims. They should run 240W and generate enough heat having two of them in a 2x4 tent.

The only problem I see now is that 480W in a 2x4 might be too much. I was using 210W and I had to drop that down to 150W. We will see how this Kush reacts to mid-flower to see if I can use all of the Vero’s or not.

@Ttystikk have you used 4000k LED’s in flower? I have three COB’s. Two 3k, and one 4k. The 4k produces more PAR than the 3k’s but some is in the blue spectrum. I doubt it will have the same effect as the CMH, but I’m curious to know if you have noticed any differences if you have used any 4k in flower. This setups allows me to drop the 4k from the series at any time.

Cheers!

 

[Tsubaki30]

Insulating the bottom of a tent won't make much difference in temperature; heat rises, so insulating sides and top is much more effective. Think about ice fishing tents...

I have concrete slab with plastic carpet as the floor and cold really gets into the tent if there isn’t any insulation. In the northern hemisphere we have proper winters when the cold buildings becomes colder, concrete slabs, water pipes ..it does help. I know how it was before insulation and then after, remember?

Think about ice fishing tents...

Give me minimum of 60mins bare footed in side that thing, ok? ha ha

 

[Tsubaki30]

The only problem I see now is that 480W in a 2x4 might be too much. I was using 210W and I had to drop that down to 150W. We will see how this Kush reacts to mid-flower to see if I can use all of the Vero’s or not.

Cobs are beasts. Brutal compared to a mars hydro bar light. i have a 180cm tall tent with 3 cobs in it and i need to keep it them as high as i can and the canopy low enough or there will be trouble. As soon as the soil dries out too much leaves start loosing color and some may fade to yellow annoyingly fast

 

[Aristoned]

Cobs are beasts. Brutal compared to a mars hydro bar light. i have a 180cm tall tent with 3 cobs in it and i need to keep it them as high as i can and the canopy low enough or there will be trouble. As soon as the soil dries out too much leaves start loosing color and some may fade to yellow annoyingly fast

Yep!

The second tent doesn’t have the extractor and is 6” taller than the last. The Vero’s are going up to about 24” @ 150W (x3). I’m thinking I may setup the 2x4 since it goes up to ~7’.

The new luminaires are going to be EB3 Slim’s from Bridgelux, not sure how they will compare to Mars Hydro. I haven’t heard anything good from them yet.

 

[Ttystikk]

@Ttystikk have you used 4000k LED’s in flower? I have three COB’s. Two 3k, and one 4k. The 4k produces more PAR than the 3k’s but some is in the blue spectrum. I doubt it will have the same effect as the CMH, but I’m curious to know if you have noticed any differences if you have used any 4k in flower. This setups allows me to drop the 4k from the series at any time.

My LED lights are mostly 3500K and they work great as all around lighting in veg and bloom.

 

[Ttystikk]

I have concrete slab with plastic carpet as the floor and cold really gets into the tent if there isn’t any insulation. In the northern hemisphere we have proper winters when the cold buildings becomes colder, concrete slabs, water pipes ..it does help. I know how it was before insulation and then after, remember?



Give me minimum of 60mins bare footed in side that thing, ok? ha ha

I'm in Colorado; it gets plenty cold here too.

The point is that heat rises and therefore insulating walls and roof are a better place to start to warm up the tent.

If you're running hydro, having a cool cement floor is nice because it keeps water temps down. Flood tables can handle pretty damn cold water; DWC and RDWC really need water temps to be in the 60-70F range for best results.

 

[Ttystikk]

Cobs are beasts. Brutal compared to a mars hydro bar light. i have a 180cm tall tent with 3 cobs in it and i need to keep it them as high as i can and the canopy low enough or there will be trouble. As soon as the soil dries out too much leaves start loosing color and some may fade to yellow annoyingly fast

Sounds to me like you need better watering and maybe more nutes. How much wattage are you running?

 

[Tsubaki30]

Sounds to me like you need better watering and maybe more nutes. How much wattage are you running?

yea i should start using blumats every grow. those are really helpful.
It's not nutrient feed issue and happens only when the soil gets too dry

Max watts i can use is maybe 110-120watts if the canopy is on optimal level and it's spring to early summer. Wiinters it's less than that. Many times some plants are taller than others so i alllways have to adjust the light levels accordingly and lift pots of the floor with the shortest plants

 

[Hiddenjems]

You can get temps higher during colder seasons by not having your exhaust running all the time. have it running only once in every 60 to 90 mins for 10-15 minutes by using a timer with it

If you can, toss a co2 monitor in the tent and watch what happens to co2 levels in a sealed enclosure with high light and lots of vegetation.