The Haze discussion thread

[Reallifegrows]

It appears seedbay still has some of MadMacs repro

okay I wasn't sure if those were the one's to go for... I'm on it!

thanks immensely

 

[Piff_cat]

Let's think about the a5 side of nevils haze because sometimes it's treated as an afterthought as if all the phenos would produce Same progeny when crossed to haze c. First of all we've seen the wide range of 5hz when we look at c5(1) to c5 122. Also the original nl5 breeder clone of nevs has been classified as an extreme outlier nev found in seeds and nothing like it appeared for him again. Also it's been mentioned that there were originally 4 to 5 a5 phenos in Holland graded from least NLD to most. Original nl5 was Not a run of the mill hybrid as it contained indonesian/thai/hawaiian type referred to as green clay because of the extreme resin. Stone guru has pulled some incredible phenos out of Gass 84 nl5 x 88 c5hz on bean basement. Regardless if nevs clone was 84 nl5 or nl5 x nl2 it had these genes. During the grail project nev was insistent on using only 97 nh(same as regseeds) now most took that to mean something was different about current line. Nev and dj look at 97 NH as the pinnacle of nevs haze breeding and selection.
now Shanti has said all along he selected a new a5 out of seeds nev have him. This means not only was his a5 different but also made with neither original parent has haze a died long ago and nevs nl5 cut presumed to be lost in the aftermath of cannabis castle crumbling open house while nev sat in jail.
haze A has always been known as most powerful and different to other haze selections. Not knocking haze c as its progeny is world famous but it's breeding traits are more easily found in other lines still available.. haze a was closest to the first haze female that nev didn't keep and considered this his #1 breeding regret. If the a genome could be pulled out of its progeny and combined with Tom hill, Mac haze, haze 4 dayz the original lines may be reborn. Mac has had great success with his most recent breeding including a5.
so we know a5 has aome back to community thru grace of ganja gods along with karma and yo Sammy. Even though this clone is considered to be in the middle of nld grading scale it's already changed haze world for the better with killer a5 etc however that's only one pheno.
now here's where I'm going with this -revival of haze A. New breeding technology has created a revolutionary process known as reverse breeding. It can extract homogenous parent chromosomes from an f1 before they are reshuffled in f2 segregation. Meisosis is stopped chromosomes from crossing over and recombination. Haploid Spores of anthers and pollen are then mated to produce double haploid lines which will contain alleles homogenous to original f1 parents. There are at least 3 haze a f1s still in existence ag13 , a5 karma, and great 88/brown haze/piff by piffcoastfarms in us. I'm currently trying to develope protocols to Create double haploid lines for cannabis

 

[@hempy]

Let's think about the a5 side of nevils haze because sometimes it's treated as an afterthought as if all the phenos would produce Same progeny when crossed to haze c. First of all we've seen the wide range of 5hz when we look at c5(1) to c5 122. Also the original nl5 breeder clone of nevs has been classified as an extreme outlier nev found in seeds and nothing like it appeared for him again. Also it's been mentioned that there were originally 4 to 5 a5 phenos in Holland graded from least NLD to most. Original nl5 was Not a run of the mill hybrid as it contained indonesian/thai/hawaiian type referred to as green clay because of the extreme resin. Stone guru has pulled some incredible phenos out of Gass 84 nl5 x 88 c5hz on bean basement. Regardless if nevs clone was 84 nl5 or nl5 x nl2 it had these genes. During the grail project nev was insistent on using only 97 nh(same as regseeds) now most took that to mean something was different about current line. Nev and dj look at 97 NH as the pinnacle of nevs haze breeding and selection.
now Shanti has said all along he selected a new a5 out of seeds nev have him. This means not only was his a5 different but also made with neither original parent has haze a died long ago and nevs nl5 cut presumed to be lost in the aftermath of cannabis castle crumbling open house while nev sat in jail.
haze A has always been known as most powerful and different to other haze selections. Not knocking haze c as its progeny is world famous but it's breeding traits are more easily found in other lines still available.. haze a was closest to the first haze female that nev didn't keep and considered this his #1 breeding regret. If the a genome could be pulled out of its progeny and combined with Tom hill, Mac haze, haze 4 dayz the original lines may be reborn. Mac has had great success with his most recent breeding including a5.
so we know a5 has aome back to community thru grace of ganja gods along with karma and yo Sammy. Even though this clone is considered to be in the middle of nld grading scale it's already changed haze world for the better with killer a5 etc however that's only one pheno.
now here's where I'm going with this -revival of haze A. New breeding technology has created a revolutionary process known as reverse breeding. It can extract homogenous parent chromosomes from an f1 before they are reshuffled in f2 segregation. Meisosis is stopped chromosomes from crossing over and recombination. Haploid Spores of anthers and pollen are then mated to produce double haploid lines which will contain alleles homogenous to original f1 parents. There are at least 3 haze a f1s still in existence ag13 , a5 karma, and great 88/brown haze/piff by piffcoastfarms in us. I'm currently trying to develope protocols to Create double haploid lines for cannabis

PiffCat were did shanti say he selected a different 5HzA for the Nevils Haze because i have never seen him post that.

And were has shanti stated HzC is dead he has not.

The reason Nevil asked for the 97 Nevils haze is because he himself had made them Nevil told me this that is it in a nut shell he wanted to grow seed he had made him self.

I have the 97 Nevils Haze and i keep telling people 1000s got the same seed up until they ran out in 2003/2004. Then fresh seed was made by shanti from the same plants Nevil used to produce the 97 seed lot. Many people grew them seed out and they looked no different.

Were is this info coming from Piff ? Nevil left Holland after he gave shanti his plant library and a ton of seed then went home to Australia. He never went back to Europe.

The only clone Nevil wanted back was the HzC male full stop.

He was sent samples of set clones and i have all ready posted what Nevil thought on that now from what i know you had the breeding parents and no one but shanti got them and then you also had the coffee shop clones in circulation as people call them.


As for Reverse breeding have you read any of Nevils posts on what he felt was the best way forward for Haze breeding ?

It was not reverse breeding mate and a keep tip is this Nevil put more importance in the male side than he did the female side when it came to breeding.

 

[LostTribe]

How can you expect any plant to produce its best if you over fertilizer it ?

How many seed did you in fact grow out ?

I found a mom and 2 males in my first seed run but i still had lots more seed and then ran more but my best were in the first 10 seed i ran that dose not mean the others were shit far from it but we go for stand outs.

You guys expect every seed to produce a cannabis cup champion but that is not how it works in any hybrid.

Every seed from Sams OHaze dose not produce winning plants dose it.

How many here have grown Nevils genetics for over 2 decades i bet few if any i have and even when i ran the widow or other things i still had Nevil Haze work growing because its that good.

I digress and formally withdraw my above comment regarding the actual leaf growth pattern of MNS Nevil Haze. Notice the BLD MNS Nevil's Haze in the 3 plants above. All the same. Hempy you yourself grew out "3", further more these look much healthier than any of your plants ever have in these pics you share from decades ago.

I grew out full packs of pure 100% NLD Original haze and Tom Hill Haze from original stock and all the plants kicked ass even the first few that got a bit of a burn they still were excellent and found it hard to cull any of them. All the NH got tossed directly into the trash can, which is something I have absolutely never wanted to do, that is until I tried to hold down a puff of that mess.

You know after your directed insult, which clearly it is now. I really feel like never looking through that line ever again (lights and time are finite) why should I even, I have Pure Haze. It kicks the shit out of any hybrid, pardone moi, because it is Pure. You wouldn't even begin to have a clue.

who else??

Y2k we were growing BigBud, NL, MLI, Jack, g13 Hashplant, 4 way, black d, jack flash, juicy fruit sure I missed a few there. NL5Haze and today I think the only one I would consider is MLI or Juicy.

 

[Sub24ox7]

In my opinion if you want the real deal go with the pure stuff end stop. The hybrids are fun, improve yield often, improve indoor adaptability and muddy the high. I have yet to find anything as good a quality high as seedsman o. Haze. This is just my very humble opinion.

 

[@hempy]

Not looking for an argument Lost but you your self posted and said

Originally posted by LostTribe View Post

Well I will just say that the 2015 MNS Nevil Haze was not BLD. All NLD plants with the normal looking leaves and the plants all stretched uncontrolably. The jury is out on the overall smoke though. Sure they were overferted but that doesnt mean it was the be all end all of haze. The very next grow of Todd's OHaze came out fantastic as did the subsequent grow of THH. Well maybe I won't flower the NH again afterall...the A5s1 from Karma also came out better, but very low flavor smell and as that one plant came out mostly long flowering NL.

Over fertilized is not a healthy plant Lost and how many seed did you grow out healthy of the Nevils Haze to full maturity to give the line a fare and honest assessment ?

These are My Nevils Haze F1s i grew Lost they look healthy to me were are the pictures of your NH is flower and in all their Glory.

 

[@hempy]

In my opinion if you want the real deal go with the pure stuff end stop. The hybrids are fun, improve yield often, improve indoor adaptability and muddy the high. I have yet to find anything as good a quality high as seedsman o. Haze. This is just my very humble opinion.

Haze is a Hybrid Sub

 

[Sub24ox7]

Sorry I should have specified, it’s a pure sativa hybrid. I would rather grow pure sativa hybrids of haze and pure sat versus indica or even hybrid ind/sat x haze. But the other is fun too sometimes(ind x haze). Just my opinion.

 

[LostTribe]

Not looking for an argument Lost but you your self posted and said



Over fertilized is not a healthy plant Lost and how many seed did you grow out healthy of the Nevils Haze to full maturity to give the line a fare and honest assessment ?

These are My Nevils Haze F1s i grew Lost they look healthy to me were are the pictures of your NH is flower and in all their Glory.

I dont see anything there but clawing burnt tips and no fan leaves?? If thats your idea of healthy then yours are more overfert than mine were. Cheers!

 

[@hempy]

Sorry I should have specified, it’s a pure sativa hybrid. I would rather grow pure sativa hybrids of haze and pure sat versus indica or even hybrid ind/sat x haze. But the other is fun too sometimes(ind x haze). Just my opinion.

How do you know its a pure Sativa hybrid ?

Even Sam dose not know what Haze is as he was told different story's him self.

Then you have fast flowering plants popping up.

It comes down to dose it smoke good do you the grower love the plant and that is it from were i stand.

 

[Sub24ox7]

It smokes the best IMO.

 

[Donald Mallard]

wait up ,
now haze has indica in it but other times u say growing a 50% haze you wouldnt know it wasnt pure sativa??
where do you pull this stuff from ,, your backside?
or do u intentionally just enjoy disagreeing with people because you didnt say it so its not right??
seems like it to me hempy ,
mate you need your own forum so u can be the boss and put everyone else in their place because they obviously are mere mortals compared to your godliness ,
after all , you spoke to nevil every day for a while , thats gotta put you up there with the gods surely??
insert sarcastic note where needed of course ...

 

[@hempy]

Aug 16, 2010

• #42

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

Not quite true I had a pure OHaze I grew in Santa Cruz that was 10 weeks, Brian's Early Haze, it was my seeds and I gave Brian the plant he grew, I was there to see it grown, flowered and harvested and I smoked some, it was great.
-SamS

Fast plants have been reported in Todd's Repo Haze also.

Never seen a 10 week Sativa my self but ha maybe there magic and came from the hippie surfer that slept next to the plant the magic seed grew.

 

[Fitzera]

As for Reverse breeding have you read any of Nevils posts on what he felt was the best way forward for Haze breeding ?

It was not reverse breeding mate and a keep tip is this Nevil put more importance in the male side than he did the female side when it came to breeding.

I just want to point out, from how I interpreted what Piff said, it is not with the aim of further breeding it but to recreate the original parental stock.

Once original parental stock is produced, then yeah people will run with it in whatever direction they choose.

If you have the starting material, a method that works, the means and ability...I can't see why anyone would be against this other than Shanti possibly. For you would hold the key that many have searched for.

It makes sense to me to do this, if possible, to preserve those origins. Isn't that the point of repros? So we dont lose what we have left? And then also allow to further in other directions? Its science really, preservation and evolution. The human race, society, everything, is based on evolution. To refuse is to stand still while the world moves around you.

 

[@hempy]

I just want to point out, from how I interpreted what Piff said, it is not with the aim of further breeding it but to recreate the original parental stock.

Once original parental stock is produced, then yeah people will run with it in whatever direction they choose.

If you have the starting material, a method that works, the means and ability...I can't see why anyone would be against this other than Shanti possibly. For you would hold the key that many have searched for.

It makes sense to me to do this, if possible, to preserve those origins. Isn't that the point of repros? So we dont lose what we have left? And then also allow to further in other directions? Its science really, preservation and evolution. The human race, society, everything, is based on evolution. To refuse is to stand still while the world moves around you.

Reversing is extreme inbreeding mate and as the male carry's the ancestral memory you need to use a male as that genetic information is past down from a male to male if you are going to gig out ancestral plants.

Nevil suggested to ether use a Nevils Haze male to an unrelated Haze if that exists or to use a Nevils Haze male to a unrelated sativa like a Thai and to then go threw those seed and to seek out ancestral plants.

He has posted some of this and he also suggested inbreeding and to store seed so its not lost .

Jan 16, 2011
The Y chromosome is handed down from father to son to grand son etc. There is only one sire line.
N.

 

[Fitzera]

Reversing is extreme inbreeding mate and as the male carry's the ancestral memory you need to use a male as that genetic information is past down from a male to male if you are going to gig out ancestral plants.

Nevil suggested to ether use a Nevils Haze male to an unrelated Haze if that exists or to use a Nevils Haze male to a unrelated sativa like a Thai and to then go threw those seed and to seek out ancestral plants.

He has posted some of this and he also suggested inbreeding and to store seed so its not lost .

I'll be the first to admit this I don't understand the internal processes in breeding yet, so I'm sorry if not treading water here.

It seems to me from the first sentence of your reply that you are thinking reversing such as the sts/colloidal process. This doesn't seem to be what Piff is talking about at all, so maybe this is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation on your end.

I did a quick search (brave, fuck Google ) and came up with this:

"Male or female spores obtained from such plants contain combinations of non-recombinant parental chromosomes which can be cultured in vitro to generate homozygous doubled haploid plants (DHs). From these DHs, complementary parents can be selected and used to reconstitute the heterozygote in perpetuity"

From this I gather that the male is not required to succeed but not in a reversal sense that we are used to. Again, this is over my head, so maybe im misinterpreting but it doesn't appear to be the reversal process.

Here is the paper I've browsed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2784905/

I see no mention of ethylene suppression, sts or colloidal...but i also dont understand the process so I cannot tell if this paper is talking about the process itself. Maybe it's a misunderstanding on my end.

 

[@hempy]

The Simplest way to enplane it would be this.

The y-chromosome is inherited more or less unchanged from father to son to grandson, indefinitely. ... Most chromosomes, including the two x-chromosomes possessed by females, get recombined or shuffled each generation before being passed down to offspring.

So if we are after ancestral plants reversing females is not the way.

 

[regseeds]

As for Reverse breeding have you read any of Nevils posts on what he felt was the best way forward for Haze breeding ?

It was not reverse breeding mate and a keep tip is this Nevil put more importance in the male side than he did the female side when it came to breeding.

Hemp brother, you never even read what Piff was sharing, your eyes gazed over and shut him down with Nevil, Nevil and Nevil.

He mentioned new breeding TeK he found. Not methods/observations that originated a few decades back.

 

[@hempy]

Hemp brother, you never even read what Piff was sharing, your eyes gazed over and shut him down with Nevil, Nevil and Nevil.

He mentioned new breeding TeK he found. Not methods/observations that originated a few decades back.

I read his post fully so not sure how you came to that conclusion i responded to a few key points so clearly i read it.

I have never seen shanti post claiming the mother of Nevils Haze was dead or have i read him say HzC was dead but if you have please feel free to post it for all of us to see.

Reversing is not new and people are free to do what they like but how you going to dig out ancestral plants when the males carry that information if your reversing a female ?.

Nevil even tried to reverse a male it didn't work he has posted it to.

I am only shearing the info past on to me by Nevil but if that bothers you then simply dont read my posts.

There is a reason why Nevil ended up only using the males in his work and i am sure most of you can work out why.

 

[Stocktont]

Well when talking about Nevil it’s always better to read his words and on the topic of NL5 x Haze A offspring, this is an interesting read. Wasn’t there a debate regarding clones of this line and if Nevil ”gave out” any or not?

”There were a couple of NL5xHzA cuttings I passed out to people, but #2 was the better of the two, but I am splitting hairs.” (quote from Nevil on Oct 6th 2010.

He also says ”There is no A5 Magno, it’s C5”

So Nevil said he passed out a ”couple” of clones from the NL5xHzA seeds. He says that the #2 was the best but it was close. In another post he says:

”Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil’s Haze, the father being Haze C.”

I posted the cover of the 1990 catalogue before.