Runty plant question.

[Glen Vowell]

l was wondering... lf you pop a runty plant from your seeds, will it grow bigger and catch up in growth with it's peers already in the flowering tent if allowed to vegetate longer under 18+ of light by itself?

 

[flylowgethigh]

Look at my first grow diary. I have a tent full of midgets and misfits that are doing just fine now. They were just slower because of the great trauma I imposed on them as a first time grower.

One secret was taking them outside and letting the sun grow them out a while.

 

[Creeperpark]

Yes however the flowers won't get as big.

 

[aridbud]

If you've got more seeds and don't like the "looks" of them, yank em and replant. Or move runty to the best light source, add a little extra nitrogen to your watering for growth every 3 waterings. Best move, yank and restart. Good luck!!

 

[Switcher56]

... a runt is a runt.

 

[Jellyfish]

I agree with Switcher56. Unless you just have unlimited space and resources, or the plant has other features you like, just let it go. A runt is a runt.

 

[flylowgethigh]

My little SB2 would kick you doubters in the shins.

 

[Switcher56]

My last run I ran 2 x AC/DC, I had a runt One was 24" while the other was 29". I had grown the strain before, without any issues with the exception of one plant I ran back then and refuse to take off its helmet. I had to gingerly extricate it. That girl did not yield the same as her sisters. This run although physical traits (height) are dissimilar they clocked in a 426g and 428g (wet) respectively. As with my original run, one girl grew purple. The purple strain was not as great as the std version. The latest run the runt was purple as well. I am currently drying day 7 was today and I am sitting @ 24% moisture, so a few more days before I jar them. I use a combination of moisture content and the snap test. My original AC/DC run, the runt weighed in at 1/3 less then her sisters. This run they are near identical with the exception that the purple one stacked denser. Dry weight will tell us where we are at.

While you are vegging a couple more weeks, the non runty girls continue to grow as well. Because I use a light meter and have different height pedestals, I am able to keep my canopy pretty uniform so the girls receive the same amount of energy. So I had my ACDC on a 4" pedestal and the Ww on a 6 incher.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Those even tops look nice Mr. Switcher.

In my "midgets and misfits" tent (same start date as the other tent, but a month out in the sun because these were behind) the canopy has succumb to my disregard for misfit plants, and the training thereof. As well as ole Sol's maddeningly powerful influence. These two on the right (the midgets) have about a 1" caliper at the base. The plant at the right rear is the best smelling one n the tent, and this is only week 3.

As can be seen, uneven canopy. I tried to put he tall trees along the wall where the light is lower.

This ain't no monocrop. The two on the right were the midgets, and the one in back is the best smelling plant in the tent. It popped up in a cup with another sprout, I pulled it up, broke the root, and here it is. That's Serious Kush in front.

These plants are no standard for a scientific comparison though, as i tried to kill them a few times. The one front left was backed over with the rear end of my PU truck when it was in a plastic pot, just the last traumatic event in her past. I am keeping an eye on it. So far it is making great flowers.

So which of these runts/misfits should I cull? I'm glad I have them. After this, assuming the dope is good, how can I toss any living plants?

Besides, this is good practice.

 

[St. Phatty]

You don't really know how the story ends, unless you give the runt a chance to flower normally.

I had an Apollo 11 "runt" a few years ago, that simply didn't like Foxfarm Ocean Forest.

Gave her a good rinsing etc.

Made some GREAT herb, reminiscent of the "Princess" plant, from which C99 was developed.

 

[Jellyfish]

Flowering out any new plant is a gamble, but I would place my bet on a healthy, normal plant every time. If y'all want to bet on a long shot, go for it. I just don't have that kind of space.

 

[PolyChucker]

I have a lot of runts in my project. Seedlings or plants will stop or stall at many stages. A lot of them end up with good bud though, so you should try to wait it out. The early development stages are most common stalls, but I had a mature plant in veg last summer that grew to 42” tall and just sat there for a couple months until flowering - then it stretched and made big buds. WTF causes that? Maybe a root disease I couldn’t see? My policy now is to keep watering everything and see what happens.
I have a couple options for stubborn plants. Getting them outside if possible usually helps. Another thing I’ve done is get a single grow bulb from a hardware store and plug it into and old lamp with a timer. Its not much light but is OK for a single plant. This way you can get the plant out of your main area.

 

[Switcher56]

You don't really know how the story ends, unless you give the runt a chance to flower normally.

I had an Apollo 11 "runt" a few years ago, that simply didn't like Foxfarm Ocean Forest.

Gave her a good rinsing etc.

Made some GREAT herb, reminiscent of the "Princess" plant, from which C99 was developed.

You have an extremely valid point wrt runts. Since the subject is topping, I went back over my old grow logs and today's (jarred this am). I have the following observations:

• 3 separate runs form the comparative data. I goes without saying as previously explained that I tweak as I go;
  • one "au naturel" AC/DC
  • one, limited topping Ww (4 tops), and
  • this one topped (8 tops) but not mainlined Ww, AC/DC
• AC/DC run provided 51(runt) and 47g respectively, both runts were the purple pheno. A good smoke but not as potent;
  • The runt was saw an increase of 51%, while the other saw a 32% increase from the original run.
• OTOH, the white widow who was topped twice during its initial run, saw an increase of 32%, when compared to initial results.
• This last run they were topped 3 times for 8 colas.

It needs to be discussed what difference(s) if any had a bearing on the results. Outside of changing my nute line, all were LSTd, some were topped and some were a modified manifold. I can say verbatim that a "modified manifold" (no mainlining) caused some issues. Nothing I couldn't keep in check, but they grew a lot of suckers, causing and extremely "bushy" interior which had to be dealt with. I could have removed the suckers in favour of yield but, I couldn't draw any conclusions from this grow vice the results of manifolding and mainlining, now I know, because folks argued about the removing of large solar panels, in favour of concentrating the nutrients to the buds where we really want them to go. I will repeat this experiment and acquire the empirical data at some point in the near future.

I was doing relatively well, and this last run I took a step back, they weren't stacking like what I call a true manifold run, I have had 3 previous full blown manifold runs:

• a sativa;
• an indica; and
• 2 hybrids

It can be argued that its all in the genetics etc... and that is a very valid point. When it comes to my limited experienced I can say that the best performers or strains (lineage) that perform best using a full manifold technique are:

• Sativas;
• Hybrids; and
• Indicas

... in that order. Now, strictly non-lineage based comparisons of the runs, showed improvements in growing techniques across those runs whereas, the last run saw a decrease in yield of 17% overall. Duly noted, as no other variable was altered.

ETA: Post mortem (I always carry them out at the end of ea run) showed no difference wrt root proliferation or structure.

 

[Glen Vowell]

Thanks everyone that answered. These posts sure were informative. I wish l knew how to "like" posts... this new forum format is confusing for me, eh? The runty in question has been outside for the last couple of weeks and IS getting some size compared to when transplanted. It had a few cold nights the first few days outside and a nice thunderstorm with a bit of hail this afternoon but took it like a champ. Going to start the bending and bondage tomorrow on the plant to encourage branching. Not a fan of topping seedlings, l dunno why... The teachings of those darn Ed Rosenthal books in the 80s maybe? .lol

 

[Switcher56]

Thanks everyone that answered. These posts sure were informative. I wish l knew how to "like" posts... this new forum format is confusing for me, eh? The runty in question has been outside for the last couple of weeks and IS getting some size compared to when transplanted. It had a few cold nights the first few days outside and a nice thunderstorm with a bit of hail this afternoon but took it like a champ. Going to start the bending and bondage tomorrow on the plant to encourage branching. Not a fan of topping seedlings, l dunno why... The teachings of those darn Ed Rosenthal books in the 80s maybe? .lol

Hit the like button (bottom right corner) Click on the # to see who liked your post.

I have Ed's book, can you refer to the section where he is against topping? I do intend on doing the circle LST at some point in the future but as of yet it is not on my radar. This video might be of some help... https://youtu.be/XdfW2p-lHN0 He explains how but most importantly why we clean up.
Manifolding explained https://www.growweedeasy.com/mainlining-nugbuckets and https://youtu.be/PfGRIZYVJVA Check grow in sig...

 

[Glen Vowell]

Switcher56 It's been many a moon since l held my Ed Rosenthal books. My fuzzy memory says it might have been "Marijuana Questions? Ask Ed" where Ed said something along the lines of "... some people don't like to top since the largest bud forms on the main stalk" to a reader's question regarding training or his first book which title eludes me. I sheepishly admit l am still baffled aboot the location of the"like"button... The only lower right buttons on my laptop's Opera browser only has "quote" and "flag" buttons. Thanks for the links to the videos & articles.

 

[flylowgethigh]

That may be one of the newbie restrictions. There is a 50 post / time probation. Go to 4 words and run your mouth, 4 words at a time.

 

[Switcher56]

Switcher56 It's been many a moon since l held my Ed Rosenthal books. My fuzzy memory says it might have been "Marijuana Questions? Ask Ed" where Ed said something along the lines of "... some people don't like to top since the largest bud forms on the main stalk" to a reader's question regarding training or his first book which title eludes me. I sheepishly admit l am still baffled aboot the location of the"like"button... The only lower right buttons on my laptop's Opera browser only has "quote" and "flag" buttons. Thanks for the links to the videos & articles.

... and that would be the "apical bud" and he would be sort of right. Once you remove that bud, the remaining buds that will shoot out will become the new apical buds. I like speaking in metaphor for easier understanding. Think of your trunk as a 3/4" water supply line with 1/2" take offs in most modern homes. This was done before they had "terminal" balance valves for the tub, which prevented you from being accidentally scolded when someone open a tap at some other point in the house. That's because your supply line has a greater volume going through it at the same city pressure. Because you are drawing your load ( running a tap) from a larger volume constant pressure supply, as soon as that pressure drops at the tap, the once restricted volume will fill the void instantly. Same thing happens here.

I have a series of videos but posted the one that explains it best. The compendium of the vids I watched and extrapolated the info from, although you can do this with clones, it is not recommended as seen here, clones typically don't have symmetrical branching seen here at min 1:52 https://youtu.be/PfGRIZYVJVA He mentions this in this video @ min 11:20 https://youtu.be/kXo9Zj2kshE?t=681

The problem using clones is that one side branch will be closer to food and water compared to its opposite. Although minute, this is significant, especially when you originally top (more difficult). The 2 new branches will grow differently, ask me how I know

I grow 5 nodes top 1st time. after the 4th, denuding all with the exception of the 2 fan leaves. I then grow the to 3 or 5 nodes, topping after 2 or 4. I do the same for the 3rd and final topping once again denuding everything below the top 16 fan leaves. This is only done (not growing to 5 internodes after topping) if you what to veg for a shorter period. Since I like vegging for 6-8 weeks (size dependent) I can grow the girls out and top after the 4 nodes on all 3 occasions, inside 8 weeks. Topping after the 2nd node can be carried out in 5 weeks but, it stresses the plant. This is based on the size of the circle you are using. Like I said, I experiment with each grow.

My last run, I didn't "mainline/lollypoping" and have seen the result of that experiment. Although, as discussed here, I did increase my yield compared to previous grows of the same plant but, I fell short of my 2.5oz per plant avg.

Wrt the like button, run ICM off a mainframe and you should see it. You are running a light version.