Clawed Leaves, Stunted Growth. 3 weeks in flower!

[DrFever]

Wow everyone is making it like its bugs , when it is a simple case of toxic amounts of nutrients ,
how will this effect your yield put it this way your plants are going to Die
only thing you can do is flush medium and hope root system is not to damaged
all the leafs that are damaged will not come back

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

It looks like this guy is an organic grower so flushing the medium isn't going to do a damn thing.

As far as pests go, he mentions in his original post that two plants that had been unaffected are starting to show the same symptoms. Took a bit longer for the other strain to get burned IMHO.

As far as excessive N having nothing to do with the claw??? Come on man...for real?? It's the easiest goddamn thing to recognize.
If the pH dropped out he would see twisting leaves...not the claw.
I know the claw. I've been the claw. I've fed the claw.
The claw is meaner than a rattlesnake and twice as good looking.

 

[Grow Tech]

If it is Mites, what is the best possible treatment?

If it is Broad Mites ( and i really hope it isn't) the best way to deal with them in flower is Predator Mites. The Californicus variety do a good job. If you need a source ( especially if you're in SoCal ) PM me. Like I said...I really hope your issue is nutrient / pH related.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Wow everyone is making it like its bugs , when it is a simple case of toxic amounts of nutrients ,
how will this effect your yield put it this way your plants are going to Die
only thing you can do is flush medium and hope root system is not to damaged
all the leafs that are damaged will not come back

Really, the only reason I mentioned RAs was because of the dramatic difference in the plants he depicted from one week to the next. I mean, it took him, what, two or three weeks for the plants to go from looking lush and beautiful to looking like they'd been hit with Roundup?

Also, I guess since I've never overfertilized to that point, I don't know what it looks like. The price of being cheap, I s'pose.

 

[DrFever]

SeaMaiden i am sorry if my post in some way offended you IMO it was grower error probably mistaken food over dose . That is the problem we grow to maximum edge,
if things are green no signs of any def or nute burn we add more its a given were human right
but once things go south it can go south in a hurry, i am shocked also i had once the start of the claw and i caught it quick with little to no issues
The claw is one bad MOFO and most of the times is irreversible, cause plants cardio vascular system is damaged plant stops growing , and goes into repair mode using all its energy to repair its self but with soil to hot it will degrade extra fast normally 48 hrs plants are dead

 

[treeofsatta]

Hi guys

Thanks for the advice, although I must admit i am starting to get a little confused by some of the contrasting information here!

I got the loupe, no signs of Broad Mites. The loupe is 30x. I am in the UK, do they exist here? Never heard of them as being an issue. Also no sign of root aphids around the tops of the pots either. I've still sent a message to the guy who gave me the cuttings to make sure he didn't have them though.

I'm feeding both strains just pure water now. Hopefully they will recover in time, I'll go and get a pH test kit tomorrow.

DrFever I'm not sure if these symptoms are what you describe, my plants have been like this for more than 48 hours.

Something I'm confused by is that there is no tip-burn on any of the leaves. I thought this was the first thing to happen with overfertilisation! What confused me more is that some leaves went yellow and crispy and I thought that meant they needed feeding so I fed even more! I have definitely seen one or two brown hairs, but I didn't think that was the end of the world, I thought it was normally for just a couple to do that....

Since getting this BioBizz AllMix soil I have been told by various people that it is literally the shittest soil I could have picked. Totally my fault for not doing enough research before hand.

I'm going to give it a few days then get back to you lot on what's happening.

Thanks

PS How should I test the pH kit, is it by using runoff? I just watered so wont need to do it for 3 days or so. Bummer

 

[vukman]

Hiya satta:

I know how you feel with all the conflicting and contrasting information. I've been there with issues of my own and yes, it can be overwhelming at times. What you really have to do is absorb all the info and then just keep and use what is relevant to your case. Remember, we are trying to help and sometimes we get a little zealous in our attempt to assist..

With the PH tester, you should first and foremost test your source water and see where that is at PH wise. If it is tap water, some of us usually fill a bucket and let it 'air out' to vent off the chlorine and what not which may be able to be vented off....An air stone as in the type which is placed in an aquarium with fish and an air pump is also used at times to aerate the water as well. Others just water their plants straight from the tap if they know that the PH is correct or just set the PH and forget about the sitting and aerating.
When it is time to water again, get your water PH level correct and then water..add water until you get run off but do so slowly...if you add 4 litres at once, you might end up with a flood coming out of the bottom of the pots..so easy does it..add some, come back and see if you have run off...if not add more...until you get enough that you can test the PH on...
This is only the manner in which I do this process...others may vary or disagree....each to their own..

Good Luck

 

[DrFever]

Hey buddy please listen to me raise your humidity 65 - 75 flush your girls big time min 3 times the volume of your pot
check runoff for ph and ppm here is how you can tell if there is a over abundance of nutrients your ph will have dropped big time place pot in a bucket and start flushing with 6.5 - 7.0 ph 'd water at the beginning you might not see much but its the middle of flush you need to be aware off keep flushing till ph you got going in is the same as whats coming out or very close 2
not once has someone mentioned humidity you may have lowered it to quick and plant is encountering stress related to humidity as well

 

[paper thorn]

As far as excessive N having nothing to do with the claw??? Come on man...for real?? It's the easiest goddamn thing to recognize.
If the pH dropped out he would see twisting leaves...not the claw.
I know the claw. I've been the claw. I've fed the claw.
The claw is meaner than a rattlesnake and twice as good looking.

Maybe.
However, and I have no intention of hijacking treesofsatta's thread for this, it seems that the only agricultural crop that shows 'excess N' as a claw on top leaves, is marijuana. Just like Calcium deficiencies don't show as brown spots on lower leaves on any other crops except marijuana, because C is locked in cell walls and can't translocate to new growth like Magnesium can.
And yes , low pH will lock out Calcium and Magnesium. At least in all other plants.

Here's the thing though, why it doesn't really matter if I'm wrong or right...

The answer, assuming you have proper nutes and if organic, proper ratios of soil, guano, whatever, is pH, pH, pH.
That's all a book of how to grow and what to do for problems needs to say.

 

[SeaMaiden]

DrFever, you make an excellent point and observation about relative humidity. This is a great time to mention vapor pressure deficit, since we're discussing how plants circulate water and nutrients through their tissues.

I'd like to reiterate to the OP that my mention of pests was only because I've never seen an overfertilization go that far. You did a good job!

I'd also like to mention that the tip burn is usually true of N+, but it's not an always kind of thing.

 

[ekomsi]

I have the same thing going on with some of my plants, I believe in my case it is a nutrient overdose 1.9ec, combined with a vpd issue, my humidity goes pretty high lights off and temp drops aswell.

Im feeding 1.0ec water now and gonna get another dehumidfier asap

 

[DrFever]

I have the same thing going on with some of my plants, I believe in my case it is a nutrient overdose 1.9ec, combined with a vpd issue, my humidity goes pretty high lights off and temp drops aswell.

Im feeding 1.0ec water now and gonna get another dehumidfier asap

that's normal humidity climbing lights off and also that is all you can do is flush 3 - 4 times your pot volume which also increases humidity in your room if you got a de humidifier set it to run a few times a day to not let it get out of hand very important to keep lights of temps above 65 min i have found that keeping temps around 70+ lights off has made a significant improvement on yield

 

[treeofsatta]

Well I flushed my plants with about as much water as it could handle before the trays filled up. About 7L each. It really is hard to flush these plants cus they're upstairs. And I dont have a wet vac anymore.

do you think at the next watering I should move them downstairs one by one and flush them in the bath? They would be mad heavy to lift up the stairs again but if ive got to do it ive got to do it...

They look like such a bunch of shit. Reckon they'll probably only yield 1 ounce each. What a bloody waste of time!

 

[treeofsatta]

Ekomsi, you got any more info?

How long has it been going on, have they recovered, whats yer temps? You in flower too like me? Have they grown at all? So many questions!

Thanks for posting DrFever. Great that so many people help on this forum, many others I go on are useless.

 

[ekomsi]

They are in week 2 of flower, hell yeah they are growing still, temps lights on are 75F 45%RH
lights off temps drop to 68F and 70%RH.

Im in 3 gal coco pots DHF's mixture, I knowingly wanted to see how hard I could push some strains and over did it, never seen the claw so did some research and came across this thread.

Check out my coco thread I have a good size room.

 

[treeofsatta]

Well then I must've taken overfeeding to a new extreme!

I can't help but think the image of my claw should be put in one of those sticky threads at the top of this forum, because the claw isn't really mentioned that much there.

Mine haven't grown vertically in about a month but the buds are filling up quite nicely now I think the quality will be alright but the quantity..well I'd rather not talk about that.

 

[yoss33]

I'm no expert in indoor growing, but I've had the claws and I had them without overfeeding, in fact I didn't feed the plants at all because they were nicely green. They got the claws when the tops reached too close to the lamp. Humidity in the room was low and I think the plants just suffered from too much evaporation and the "claws" is a reaction that aims at reducing evaporation via the stomata at the bottom side of the leaves.
If the claws are more expressed closer to the lamp compared to the tops which are further away from the lamp, then it's probably the RH+temperature.

 

[ekomsi]

I'm no expert in indoor growing, but I've had the claws and I had them without overfeeding, in fact I didn't feed the plants at all because they were nicely green. They got the claws when the tops reached too close to the lamp. Humidity in the room was low and I think the plants just suffered from too much evaporation and the "claws" is a reaction that aims at reducing evaporation via the stomata at the bottom side of the leaves.
If the claws are more expressed closer to the lamp compared to the tops which are further away from the lamp, then it's probably the RH+temperature.

Agreed 100%

 

[treeofsatta]

OK Man I'll try moving them away from the lamp today. The thing is I can hold my hand pretty close to the bulb for ages without it getting hot!

 

[-Capfan-]

GL!