Colloidal Silver vs. STS

I have read several references here to colloidal silver being safer and as effective as STS....but no clear mention of specifics, anyone have them here or can provide a link?

What dilution?
When to spray?
How often?
Any particular brand or type of colloidal silver? (don't know that there is any difference, just asking encase)

Having only used sts and GA3, i cannot go much further.
I do not think the bought CS is adequate

ones poisen, the other safe. over the counter CS wont do the trick, ya have to brew it longer, to the point your not wantin to drink it. till its good and grey, almost black.

ive only done stress selfin so far. my buddy turned me on to CS, he uses it regular and gets plenty of pollen and plenty of seed. been sprayin a plant in veg now for over a week, and waitin for male preflowers to see if i was successful. ill continue to spray into flower to ensure it remains a male.

one thing with sts and such, is its poisen, and noone knows how long the residual chemicals in the sts remain in a plant, or if it stays in the plant even the seed made. thats the problem with it for me.

peeps say, they dont smoke the bud from a plant sts was used on, but how do ya know that populations down the road wont have residual chemicals in um? ya dont, say what ya will, theres no study done to say it does or it doesnt.

CBF

Your stress selfing sounds interesting.
It would be good if you would expound on it.

You also sound like you know about as much about science as i do,
only i would call sts a solution made with silver and less corrosive than
phosphoric acid.
One should not use bud from sts reversed plants.
I am no scientist [like you] but i would highly doubt that
some topically applied diluted solution would be inherited in the gene pool through seeds
formed from pollen from that sts reversed plant.
In other words , only the pollen is used from the sts plant.

where can you buy STS in ready to spray form?

im no science major, and i agree, i wouldnt lay money on the sts bein carried through generations, but no one knows for sure. could actually be in the pollen, i dont know. so it makes me wary of any lines developed with it.

theres been many drugs pulled off the market in recent times that had studies done, approved by the Gov, and cause problems down the road, which didnt show up in earlier studies.

long term is what im sayin, we dont know what long term effects will pop up in the future from usin sts on MJ. we really have no idea if any residual chemical is in the pollen, or if its transfered to another plant.

like a human, whatever chemicals your ingestin while pregnant, tranfers to the child( crack babies and all) once the sts is in the tissues of a plant, why wouldnt it somehow transfer over to her sibs?


as for stressed selfin, its what happens in nature with the plants. drought (moisture stress) would be an example. also a plant not bein pollinated, late in flower it will sport bananas and try and polly itself. kinda like a survival/self preservation gene kicks in.

i used light poisenin, pulled the plant from flower at the lights out point, and placed in veg till the lights came back on. 36 hrs of continous light, and had bananas all over the plant within a week. tried a few times before i had viable pollen, which kinda correlated to mid flower, early flower pollen was shootin blanks.

only harvested a few of the male flowers and made a few seeds, which im almost to harvest with. just had to see for myself what would happen. so far no signs of nanners on any of the plants. could possibly miss um if they are well hidden, but so far look pretty good.

ive made a few fem batches since, and find moisture stress works best for me. let um get to the point were the fans are layin on the main stalk, revive um and most times you will get plenty of nanners.

imo every MJ line has a herm trait, some flip easy some are real hard to flip. i dont think forcein a plant to flip through any type of stress, somehow increases the freq of herms in a population. just my thoughts havent done enough to make any real observations.

im just fuckin around, seein for myself what takes place when makin seed.

CBF

Cedarberry said:

im no science major, and i agree, i wouldnt lay money on the sts bein carried through generations, but no one knows for sure. could actually be in the pollen, i dont know. so it makes me wary of any lines developed with it.

theres been many drugs pulled off the market in recent times that had studies done, approved by the Gov, and cause problems down the road, which didnt show up in earlier studies.

long term is what im sayin, we dont know what long term effects will pop up in the future from usin sts on MJ. we really have no idea if any residual chemical is in the pollen, or if its transfered to another plant.

like a human, whatever chemicals your ingestin while pregnant, tranfers to the child( crack babies and all) once the sts is in the tissues of a plant, why wouldnt it somehow transfer over to her sibs?


as for stressed selfin, its what happens in nature with the plants. drought (moisture stress) would be an example. also a plant not bein pollinated, late in flower it will sport bananas and try and polly itself. kinda like a survival/self preservation gene kicks in.

i used light poisenin, pulled the plant from flower at the lights out point, and placed in veg till the lights came back on. 36 hrs of continous light, and had bananas all over the plant within a week. tried a few times before i had viable pollen, which kinda correlated to mid flower, early flower pollen was shootin blanks.

only harvested a few of the male flowers and made a few seeds, which im almost to harvest with. just had to see for myself what would happen. so far no signs of nanners on any of the plants. could possibly miss um if they are well hidden, but so far look pretty good.

ive made a few fem batches since, and find moisture stress works best for me. let um get to the point were the fans are layin on the main stalk, revive um and most times you will get plenty of nanners.

imo every MJ line has a herm trait, some flip easy some are real hard to flip. i dont think forcein a plant to flip through any type of stress, somehow increases the freq of herms in a population. just my thoughts havent done enough to make any real observations.

im just fuckin around, seein for myself what takes place when makin seed.

CBF

Click to expand...

Thanks Cedar, very good answer.
Much respect.
I am finding that GA3 is working too.
Yes i am just trying to see how things work also.

Frankly I think some of the science in this thread are close to looney.....

And I dont have the inclination to address them all....

but heres one......

I have been growing for about a million years....

Ive had many wilted plants over the years....

and can say.... Ive never seen a higher incidence of hermies because of that...

I would be curious about others experience with hermies and wilting.....


hermies due to water stress.....

Its been my feeling that to environmentally stress plants into producing hermie flowers has a list of one...


light

^^^i think any type of stress wil cause a plant to produce nanners, alot depends on the plant as i said above, some are easy to flip others not.

soma uses whats he calls rodilization(sp) lettin the plant go long sensi, and late into flower they will spit bananas. ive seen that in a few plants here.

i have also witnessed a plant producin bananas in flower, and when grown again in a much larger can, it didnt show a one? i agree with alot of growers that Thai, and id imagine lots of other sativas, will produce nanners in small cans. ive seen um auto flower in small cans as well, even in veg, they will start makin pollen.

like i said, nothin scientific, just observations along the way.

CBF

i dont think forcein a plant to flip through any type of stress, somehow increases the freq of herms in a population.

Click to expand...

I always thought that it was more of a risk over several generations, as it is basically a selective pressure like anything else over time that would effect a population, but in the short term seems OK.

Sam the Skunkman among others advocate the existence and use of "true females", you're saying you don't think they exist?

one thing with sts and such, is its poisen, and noone knows how long the residual chemicals in the sts remain in a plant, or if it stays in the plant even the seed made. thats the problem with it for me.

Click to expand...

Me too, and why I asked, actually you were the first I noticed on here to mention CS as an alternative.

So back to the original question....how often, when, what type etc...? I know health food stores sell CS, is it pure enough or are there additives? Could it be boiled down to a higher concentration and then be effective if not concentrated enough?

forgot to ask CBF: how many seeds did you get from the light stress, or rather -how many do you think you could have gotten...ballpark?

Thanks everyone for your input.

aeric, i had 22 beans off one limb that i used a few bananas on. id imagine you can get as many as ya want. couple hundred pretty easy.

i dont know if the health food store stuff works. i lady up the way made my first batch, and i been makin my own pretty simple to do. 9v batt two leads and two strings of silver. glass of distilled water.

spray every day in the am, in the eve i rinse with fresh water spray. so far plants look fine. no adverse colorin or anything like that. start two weeks before flower and continue for two weeks in is what i was told.

just have to see how it goes.

CBF.

^^^i think any type of stress wil cause a plant to produce nanners, alot depends on the plant as i said above, some are easy to flip others not.

soma uses whats he calls rodilization(sp) lettin the plant go long sensi, and late into flower they will spit bananas. ive seen that in a few plants here.

===========================================

Im familiar with this...

this is an example of a genetic trait.... not stress.....

Hows a guy do this successfully outdoors?

CS

CS

aeric said:

I have read several references here to colloidal silver being safer and as effective as STS....but no clear mention of specifics, anyone have them here or can provide a link?

What dilution?
When to spray?
How often?
Any particular brand or type of colloidal silver? (don't know that there is any difference, just asking encase)

Click to expand...

From a thread at another site:

<
ionic silver for sex reversal
hello my friends...nice to be back home! well ive found a article from the old CW that i had saved to my computer about making ionic silver...so id figure id share it here...after all we have to make this place like it was! so here we goooo-
Get a 6 volt ac/dc Adapter cut the end off and strip the two wires (for clips)
pair of alligator clips
0.999 Pure silver wire
distilled water
a glass cup or jar
air stone and pump(recommended but not needed)

Cut the silver into two pieces, attach each piece to the AC adapter with the alligator clips and let only the silver hang down into the distilled water on opposite sides of the glass. Plug in AC adapter and wait about 7 hours (use the air stone during this time if you have one). That's it, you have made Ionic Silver! Then spray the hell outta your clone semi-frequently for the first few weeks of 12/12 to reverse the sex to male.


Here is ********** rundown as he posted:

"Anyhoo. More about ionic silver. I was just saying elsewhere that I think we might want to get away from saying this process works with "colloidal silver", because colloidal silver is a somewhat broad definition- any silver in solution... and the large particles that result from a higher-voltage process (or from commercially available sources) don't seem to really result in full reversal. Whereas those from ****s process are the smallest silver particles possible, and are basically "ionic". Does this make sense? I think this distinction might stop people from blowing big bucks on bottles of "colloidal silver" to save themselves time.

The process **** has developed needs to be followed very closely for this to work. Key elements of the technique that result in ionic silver are:

1. the low voltage (6 volts is optimum, but anyting at or below 12 volts DC will probably work well). Also, it must be DC, not AC. Amperage hasn't been discussed much; but anything in the 300-900 mA range is what we are looking for. I really suggest getting a 6 volt 300 mA transformer from Radio Shack. Easy to work with and inexpensive, and then we all have a standardized power source to discuss. While 9 volt batteries will work, there will be some variation in the final product that may affect reversal. Exact amperage measured as the process progresses during the 5 hours goes from a tiny amount to a much higher amount due to a conductivity increase as the silver goes into the solution. 6 volts/300 mA is perfect.

2. the airstone and air pump- I have since read about this specific technique of **** elsewhere on the web (they drink the stuff and say that the tiny silver particles are the only ones that target a virus); the airstone is absolutely essential for this process to work properly. This was the opinion of a chemist who anylized the process and it's final product. A magnetic stirrer as seen in labs will also work, but that's a bit beyond most of us. We're basically looking for circulation.

3. the use of distilled water - there must be absolutely nothing else in the water for it to be pure. This may not be entirely critical for cannabis reversal purposes, but personally I drink the stuff too. So- no salt to increase conductivity, and no silver less than .999% pure if you are going to drink it. As an aside, you need to make sure that the alligator clips and any other metal stay well clear of the water to avoid contamination. Saran wrap prevents splashing that results from the bubbler.

4. a proper period of time to let the process work - 5 hours is good. I tend to let mine go 6 to 7 hours. I have read elsewhere that the length of time it needs to run is affected by room temperature. The times listed indicated that 6 to 7 hours was best with room temps of 70 degrees F. Longer times for colder temps and shorter times for warmer temps. It can be very helpful to use a laser pointer to determine if the process is working well. The laser, when pointed through the liquid in the dark, will show a beam of cloudiness when the amount of silver gets higher. For the first two or three hours it looks like nothing is happening at all. At that point one of the silvers will begin to blacken.

Running the process for more than 12 hours will apparently result in larger silver particles (which we don't want); the conductivity at the end gets too high and too much amperage is the result.

5. a standardized amount of distilled water. I haven't seen this discussed much, but 16 ounces is the amount I have settled on. Obviously 8 ounces of finished solution will be twice the strength of 16 ounces, but probably even more due to the increased conductivity of the stronger batch. It seems like the results on reversals will vary accordingly; maybe so, maybe not. Since we can spray them hard and spray them often without stressing the target plant, this may be a minor issue.

6. the distance between the electrodes probably has some affect upon how well the process works. The hard part is that the ideal distance may vary depending upon what conductor type is used, be it wire, coins or bars. I used two 1 oz. silver bars with the top bent into a U shape to hang on the glass rim. Mine were spread about 2 and 1/2 inches apart, and judging by the cloudy beam of laser light this worked fine. For what it's worth, I saw no yellowish tint... my final product was crystal clear in normal light. Maybe my final ppm of silver was a bit too low... I probably need to check that with my ppm meter."

You can spray your clones and run them under 12/12 without them becomming sick or very traumatized like the STS might do. I hope that this information will help those of you who are new to sex-reversal processes. It is nice to get the 'Whole Enchelada' on your plate, so Bon Appitito Everyone..>

I have tried brewing up the silver solution myself following the basic outline mentioned above.I even tried tasting it,and it tasted very strongly of metal.I have not tried it on a plant however...but will at some point.I should state here that I didn't use silver bars,but instead silver wire purchased at a jewelry repair store..(99.9%)

I also had a good friend use sts...it worked great on Blueberry and to a lessor degree on Cali Orange...but did not work on my Flo.

He (my friend) has run across some other growers who have said that the CS works great,and that it is their preferred method...but your mileage may vary.

Good Luck

SP

That's the one SP. Thanks for the cut-paste.

Cedar, Your mention of water stress was in conjunction with using light stress huh?
Yes that is the CS info.
It also does appear that letting the sinsi get past its prime will throw out the odd nanner in late flower in many cases.
C of Green,
The "looney" post was true and funny.
I think i better go back and erase anything to remotely do with chemistry that
i printed.
My disclaimer however was that i know a little of the periodic table.

Colodial Silver experiance

Colodial Silver experiance

Howdy folks, heres my experiance with homebrewed colodial Silver which has given me 100% success with 100s of plants which equalled 100% females and 00.00% hermies and 00.00% males

i first used a 30yr old 3amp auto battery charger, but then switched to a more conventional discarded lil black AC ADAPTER which puts out DC9v 200mA

IMO anything will work( i don't recommend plugging directly into a wall socket though LOL)

i bought some alligator clips and attached them to the outlet wire on the charger,and clipped them on 2 pure silver 1oz ingots

i hang them iacross from each other in a pint jar "with out letting" the DISTILLED WATER ONLY touch the metal clips

plug it in and let it sit over night.

i find a silver sheen on top of the water usually and lil silver tails hanging from the ingots, they all disappear when the waters disturbed

put the solution in a spray bottle and start spraying your choice of females about 2weeks before you plan to switch them to 12/12

and when their in 12/12 continue to spray them till you see pollen balls start to develop, then stop.

i,ll spray them 3 times a day or once every day or twice every other day, it doesn't seem to matter. my Thai79 didn't show balls for 6 wks, Sour Diesel started to show after about 10days in12/12.

i have found the ball structure to be more like female buds then normal balls ,because the plant is female, and the balls don't dry and open and spread ther spunk into the wind like normal males,( in my experiance). every time i,ve had to pluck the fat ripest balls and sprinkle the pollen manually over the females. a small price/hassle to pay to produce gobbs of 100% female seeds IMO

anyway,the silver is a minor investment and theres nothing to lose in trying. and CS is healthy and non Toxic

you all have lil chargers from toys, radios, cell phs laying around, any will work IMO, the 3amp batt charger i used first seemed like a Nuclear Reactor as far as CS production goes, but it worked fine too. but was just to damn big and rusty etc to have on the kitchen counter hehehe

repeat- use Distilled Water only, my tap water didn't work and it stunk when brewed and its PH 7.00 and 140ppm every day,every year from a 460' private well (as good as it gets,i adj my PH and PPM meters with it) but it doesn't work for CS

stay safe GK


edit, i read 1000s of words on the subject of producing CS and treating the plants. and thought manOman what a Hassle, so i cobbled my stuff together as posted above, tried it with 1000% success(first time i got 7gms of rm Sour Diesel S1 seeds) every one a fat lady just like the mum, grown here,and by my friends in Cali. and Australia) all finished with the same fat juicy results with no males or hermies.

who needs the stress of worring about Mili amps, hrs of brewing,when to treat the plants, it doesn't really matter enjoy.

i,m gonna brew 5gals of the stuff soon and just dip my new Chocolate Diesel plant in it

....fantastic

I apologise for all my questions below, but despite a lot of reading I havent found any information on them, so your expertise here would be very much appreciated!

After you've made it how long is it viable for? a few hours? a few years?

Does the silver permanently stay suspended, or does it eventually settle? ie. do you normally shake it before use?

How much water do you normally use? 500mls? 5 litres?

How much can you make using 2 x 1oz pure silver coins/ingots? can you reuse the silver many times?

How many hours do you do the electrolysis for?

Do you have to use two pieces of silver?

Is it a circular circuit? ie. is there one or two wires attached to each piece of silver?

Can you spray just one branch, so that only one branch will produce pollen, with the rest of the plant having female buds, AND then can you use that pollen on those buds on the same plant? Or is it better to use the pollen on other females

Many thanks!

ps. disappointing - this is the only thread at icmag with colloidal/coloidal in the title