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Over-flowering for "Bananas"

apples

Active member
So as we know over-flowering can result in the production of "Bananas" or female pollen sacks.

I am interested in forcing a female to produce these sacks but I would prefer to not waste an entire female, especially since I only have 5 plants of unknown sex at the moment.

Some questions I have...

Is it possible I could harvest most of a female plant but leave some buds on the plant to over-flower?

Appox how long do the "Bananas" take to appear?(I'm sure it varies from strain to strain but just a rough guess will do)

How do I know when to pluck them?

How could I keep them viable for atleast 2 months?

Would 1 be enough to polinate a female grown SOG style?

Hard to find much info on these "Bananas" so any info would be appreciated!
 

apples

Active member
So to kinda answer my questions and maybe some other peoples here is some info I found.

But I still don't know if just leaving some popcorn buds is practical for producing bananas. Guess I'll pm Soma.

Story by Soma

Creating feminized cannabis seeds is an art. Just like art, there are a few different methods of application. I have written about some of my different methods of making seeds in previous HIGH TIMES articles. I have used gibberellic acid, pH stress, light stress, and fertilizer stress to force my female plants to make seeds. All of these methods are harsh on the plants, and some, like the gibberellic acid, are not organic. In my search for cleaner, more earth-friendly ways of working with the cannabis plant, I have found a new way to make feminized seeds.

Feminized seeds occur as a result of stress, rather than genetics. All cannabis plants can and will make male flowers under stress. Certain strains like a higher pH, some a lower one. Some like a lot of food, some like much less. There is quite a lot of variety in marijuana genetics, and you can’t treat every plant the same way.

It takes many harvests before you really get to know a particular strain. Just like getting to know human friends, it takes time. I have grown the same strains for close to a decade, and am truly getting to know every nuance the different plants exhibit. I can recognize them from a distance. I must say that I get a lot of help from my friends, both in making seeds and in learning new and better ways of working with this sacred plant.

I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.

To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.

In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.

For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.

I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.

You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics.

Soma.
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
FWIW what Soma's doing is damaging the gene pool. I can't recommend using intersexed plants as parents and any breeder worth his weight won't either.
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
Soma is selecting hermies, therefore he's applying positive pressure on those traits. If you want seedy pot, purchase some Soma fems...pretty simple.
 

Hamburglar

Active member
The plants won't hermie on their own when grown from the fem seeds. They original female only went hermie when in sever stress. Not under normal conditions. The genes will be passed on to the new fem seed that it should hermie in severe stress.
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
So I guess you WANT you plants to have intersexed genes and to hermie when stressed? Seems pretty stupid.
 
havent grown from soma but ive only grown with feminized seeds and must be pretty lucky to never of had a hermie.

if i was going to make feminized seeds i would take two clones from the same mother that you want to make seeds with. bloom one a couple of weeks before the other and use light stress or geribil (sp) acid or silver spray to induce a pollen sac. once that pollen sac is ready it should be used to pollenate the other female clone to produce female seeds.
 

Mr. Stinky

Member
So I guess you WANT you plants to have intersexed genes and to hermie when stressed? Seems pretty stupid.

all mj have intersexed genes. none are without. a "hermie" is just a plant that activates those traits easily. almost all MJ females will sprout staminate flowers if left to die a natural death, its what mother nature has made them to do. but that has nothing to do with "hermies". hermies are unprovoked. and their progeny will hermie unprovoked, just as soma's fem seeds will not hermie unless left to die. just as my fem seeds wont hermie unless sprayed with GA. it shouldnt be called a hermie when we have to activate those traits on purpose. only if it does it unprovoked should it be called a hermie.

as an example, we all have the ability to "hermie". most of us are either male of female, but there are a few freaks that are born both. they are hermies. but give me enuf female hormone and ill grow tits. im not a hermie, im a poor dude that got chemically forced into growin female parts. my kids wont be born hermaphrodites. its not in my genetic code to be hermaphrodite...its the chemicals that are at fault

TEERCS, thats how you make S1's. its a very poor way to make seed stock because of the narrow range of genetic material in them. good vigorous seeds come from multiple parents, and theres no reason to S1 just to make feminized seeds :)
 
I am interested in forcing a female to produce these sacks but I would prefer to not waste an entire female, especially since I only have 5 plants of unknown sex at the moment.

this is what i was trying to answer. i figured he was trying to make fem seeds of the strain he was flowering without wasteing his whole plant.

TEERCS, thats how you make S1's. its a very poor way to make seed stock because of the narrow range of genetic material in them. good vigorous seeds come from multiple parents, and theres no reason to S1 just to make feminized seeds

some people dont want to waste time sexing or have enough room for 3x as many plants as they're trying to grow. and wouldnt you make S1's if you wanted to narrow a specific plant traits? mixing would be getting further and further away from having genetic unformity...correct?
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
TEERCS, thats how you make S1's.

Isn't taking a clone of your female and treating it with silver get you the pollen you need..... then whacking another clone of the same female..... the same as S1?

A lot of times I feel that people believe that an S1 is only "selfed" if it stresses and pollinates "itself", all on the same plant.
 
i wish i could respond but i cant understand what you wrote. i dont know the scientific language (s1's, f2's, etc) i was just respponding to the fact that it would make narrow, poor seed stock.
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
You're right, I shouldn't have said hermie, it confuses the conversation.

all mj have intersexed genes. none are without

I doubt it.


a "hermie" is just a plant that activates those traits easily.

Lets just say a hermie will show both male and female flowers regardless of environment.

almost all MJ females will sprout staminate flowers if left to die a natural death, its what mother nature has made them to do. but that has nothing to do with "hermies". hermies are unprovoked.

I haven't grown all MJ and I haven't grown them to a natural death so I guess I won't speculate. I do agree with the unprovoked bit.


just as soma's fem seeds will not hermie unless left to die.

That's speculation. How do you know the same traits he's selecting for won't reverse in bad pH, or with wind damage, nute problems, heat, and any other sort of "stress." What makes you think he's ONLY selecting for late development intersexuality and that it is completely different than all the other intersex traits?


just as my fem seeds wont hermie unless sprayed with GA. it shouldnt be called a hermie when we have to activate those traits on purpose. only if it does it unprovoked should it be called a hermie.

Fine, a hermie is only a hermie when it shows the trait in all environments. But, Soma's may and probably will in many different environments in response to many stresses. Not sure how you make your fem seed but if they have to be induced with hormones I'd say it has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.


as an example, we all have the ability to "hermie".

No, we don't, some of us have those genes and some of us don't. I personally have no ability to hermie :nanana:


most of us are either male of female, but there are a few freaks that are born both. they are hermies. but give me enuf female hormone and ill grow tits. im not a hermie, im a poor dude that got chemically forced into growin female parts.

What is your point? I have no problem with properly made fem seeds, I have a problem with Soma's method, which is breeding with people who easily have dicks and ****s, not using hormones to MAKE REGULAR males and females have both.

edit: btw whoever set up the filter on here is really pathetic. no reason to censor posts on the internet, we're all big boys and girls out there, we can handle the c word.
 

Mr. Stinky

Member
You're right, I shouldn't have said hermie, it confuses the conversation.



I doubt it.
why would you doubt it? i have yet to meet a plant that wont intersex. im far from meeting them all, but so far, im 100%. nowhere on these boards is there a thread about a specific plant that is truely pure female. its one of those basic building blocks in all plants. if we look to the rest of the flora on this planet, where do you find any evidence of pure female/male? you just dont. in almost all cases tho, the opposite is true. even if we make the leap to fauna, there are still many cases, frogs for ex, where sex isnt a stone carving.
ive been wrong many times in my life tho, and if there is any evidence of it here, im open arms :)




Lets just say a hermie will show both male and female flowers regardless of environment.



I haven't grown all MJ and I haven't grown them to a natural death so I guess I won't speculate. I do agree with the unprovoked bit.




That's speculation. How do you know the same traits he's selecting for won't reverse in bad pH, or with wind damage, nute problems, heat, and any other sort of "stress." What makes you think he's ONLY selecting for late development intersexuality and that it is completely different than all the other intersex traits?
i dont know. there could be all kinds of underlying things taking place. my point is, by his choosing females that dont intersex in flower, then letting them go near to death so they produce pollen, he is choosing AGAINST "hermies" and FOR late flower intersex. both are good choices in my opinion. all plants have the ability to intersex as far as im concerned, so a plant that knows when we want it, and when we dont, is a good one




Fine, a hermie is only a hermie when it shows the trait in all environments. But, Soma's may and probably will in many different environments in response to many stresses. Not sure how you make your fem seed but if they have to be induced with hormones I'd say it has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.
but i contend that those very hormones im introducing are already there in the plant. soma and i are only raising their levels in different ways. while mine may be a little more aggressive and give the illusion of "forcing" the plant, in reality im sure all im doing is either suppressing the one that keeps the stamen away, or coaxing the production of the one that produces them. either way, im only giving a nudge to mother nature to do what she already knows how to do. i believe soma is doing the same thing. and if the 2 plants could be analyzed, i think we would find the same hormonal levels in both. disagree?




No, we don't, some of us have those genes and some of us don't. I personally have no ability to hermie :nanana:
you sure? :smoke: and it was just a metaphoric example :)




What is your point? I have no problem with properly made fem seeds, I have a problem with Soma's method, which is breeding with people who easily have dicks and ****s, not using hormones to MAKE REGULAR males and females have both.
but is he not using the same plant with the same hormones to meet the same goal? he is using a natural process that doesnt undermind our desired use of the plant, and im using an artificial one. as far as ive read, somas seeds had no more troubles than anyone elses. so what do you base your opinion on?

edit: btw whoever set up the filter on here is really pathetic. no reason to censor posts on the internet, we're all big boys and girls out there, we can handle the c word.
we can say fuck, but not ****...
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
why would you doubt it? i have yet to meet a plant that wont intersex. im far from meeting them all, but so far, im 100%. nowhere on these boards is there a thread about a specific plant that is truely pure female.

Sam claims to have a few...


its one of those basic building blocks in all plants. if we look to the rest of the flora on this planet, where do you find any evidence of pure female/male? you just dont. in almost all cases tho, the opposite is true. even if we make the leap to fauna, there are still many cases, frogs for ex, where sex isnt a stone carving.
ive been wrong many times in my life tho, and if there is any evidence of it here, im open arms :)

7% of all flowering plants are dioecious. Holly and the willows are some examples, there's over 400 species of willows alone.


i dont know. there could be all kinds of underlying things taking place. my point is, by his choosing females that dont intersex in flower,

He's explicitly breeding with females that DO intersex in flower.


he is choosing AGAINST "hermies" and FOR late flower intersex. both are good choices in my opinion. all plants have the ability to intersex as far as im concerned, so a plant that knows when we want it, and when we dont, is a good one

Selecting for intersexuality is a bad move to me. Have you seen Soma's garden, his plants are happy as hell. He is a fantastic gardener, surely in my garden his plants would be way more stressed, don't you think this could possibly effect things? Personally, I think everyone should be selecting against intersex traits, you seem to think that's impossible.


but i contend that those very hormones im introducing are already there in the plant. soma and i are only raising their levels in different ways. while mine may be a little more aggressive and give the illusion of "forcing" the plant, in reality im sure all im doing is either suppressing the one that keeps the stamen away, or coaxing the production of the one that produces them. either way, im only giving a nudge to mother nature to do what she already knows how to do. i believe soma is doing the same thing. and if the 2 plants could be analyzed, i think we would find the same hormonal levels in both. disagree?

Of course I disagree. Soma's plants show male flowers on female plants, you have to put hormones on your plants. He is selecting for intersexuality, you shouldn't be. And if analyzed, your plants would have the amount of hormones that you applied and that has nothing to do with the genome, his have the hormones naturally. I don't want my females pollinating my crop, you think it doesn't matter because all cannabis will show male flowers somehow.
 

Mr. Stinky

Member
but im not really "applying" hormones is what im saying. i am only applying a chemical that induces the hormones in the plant. in the end, soma and i are using the same genes, traits, hormones, etc. im bringing them out chemically, he is bringing them out manually. the same plants i spray will intersex if i leave them past flower. but neither of those processes are connected to whether or not they intersex DURING flower. these are all just different ways of bringing out the same traits in plants. some guys use ga, some use sts, some use somas method, some use light manipulation, some use other stressors, but in the end, every one of these processes is doing the same thing. they are all pushing the plant to produce hormones to intersex. those same plants do not do this when flowered out normally.

ya i know holly and some others show different sexes, but they also have intersex traits. a female holly bush can be forced to intersex much like our plants can. so my point still stands that there are no "pure" females in the plant kingdom. the sexes are so much alike, and both produce the same hormones, just in different levels. i feel that male and female have the same basic building blocks, they just use different levels of the same stuff :)
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
If you can "over-flower" a female clone to make male flowers it has inter-sexual genes or do you think the inter-sex traits just comes from nothing? If stress causes change of sex it is because there are genes present that allow this.
I have female plants which can not be stressed to make male flowers, they will if treated with STS, but without a chemical treatment they are 100% female.
If you believe that inheritance is controlled by genes, where do you think the inter-sexed traits come from? From inter-sex genes. Eliminate them and stress will not make male flowers on a female. STS still will make male flowers. But I have had a few females that will not make male flowers with STS, and a lot more that will make male flowers but they are functionally sterile, the pollen does not drop.
BTW, SOMA uses STS with success.

-SamS
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
If you can "over-flower" a female clone to make male flowers it has inter-sexual genes or do you think the inter-sex traits just comes from nothing? If stress causes change of sex it is because there are genes present that allow this.
I have female plants which can not be stressed to make male flowers, they will if treated with STS, but without a chemical treatment they are 100% female.
If you believe that inheritance is controlled by genes, where do you think the inter-sexed traits come from? From inter-sex genes. Eliminate them and stress will not make male flowers on a female. STS still will make male flowers. But I have had a few females that will not make male flowers with STS, and a lot more that will make male flowers but they are functionally sterile, the pollen does not drop.
BTW, SOMA uses STS with success.

-SamS
:yeahthats

Plants may have both sexes but I'm not interested in pollen from any female that can grow male flowers through stress other than STS or Gib.
 

GreenintheThumb

fuck the ticket, bought the ride
Veteran
STS still will make male flowers. But I have had a few females that will not make male flowers with STS, and a lot more that will make male flowers but they are functionally sterile, the pollen does not drop.
BTW, SOMA uses STS with success.

-SamS

As always, thanks for your input Sam. Always a pleasure. On the subject of your clones that will not reverse or will reverse and are sterile: Have you ever tried using these as a tool to clean up lines that have large incidence to intersexuality? Do you believe they have any value in that regard or do you think they are simply sterile? Is there any circumstances that link all those females, are they particularly inbred perhaps?

And it's nice to hear that Soma's on board with the STS, hopefully nothing I said bothered him, as mentioned he's a fantastic gardener.
 

Mr. Stinky

Member
thanks for posting sam. i hope you guys dont take my questioning and debate as a slight to you. its certainly not.
If you can "over-flower" a female clone to make male flowers it has inter-sexual genes or do you think the inter-sex traits just comes from nothing?
no, it comes from its parents, just like all its other traits. my point is that all mj plants have those traits, the only difference is its resistance to showing them
If stress causes change of sex it is because there are genes present that allow this.
I have female plants which can not be stressed to make male flowers, they will if treated with STS, but without a chemical treatment they are 100% female.
but my contention is that they are NOT 100% female, regardless of stress/sts/ga/whatever. the plant has a set of genes that hold the traits of intersex, the only difference is the plants resistance to those traits showing. yes, they are phenotypically 100% female, but genetically, they are still holding the ability to grow male flowers. that ability is available to us to bring out if we want to.
If you believe that inheritance is controlled by genes, where do you think the inter-sexed traits come from? From inter-sex genes. Eliminate them and stress will not make male flowers on a female. STS still will make male flowers.
so far all the evidence ive seen points to the inability to "eliminate" them entirely. as ingrained in the genome as the color green. the hormones that control these things are in both sexes, and none of our plants are without them. its a building block that cannot be eliminated, and if a plant were to survive without these hormones, it would be a very strange being on this planet :)
But I have had a few females that will not make male flowers with STS, and a lot more that will make male flowers but they are functionally sterile, the pollen does not drop.
BTW, SOMA uses STS with success.

-SamS
i dont see anything there that argues against my point. all that tells me is there are further levels of resistance to intersex. many many people have tried CS and gotten sterile pollen. i have gotten sterile pollen from unsuccessful attempts with light stress, GA and cs. when i upped the stress, application rate, tho, i got viable pollen from all methods. CS is the weakest method of all so far for me. you having plants that resist even STS application just shows another higher level of resistance. we cannot see the actual genetic code to say for certain your plants are intersex gene free. if we could, i would be willing to wager alot of money that the intersex genes are present in all mj, and that the only difference isin its ability to resist the stress we place on it.

so while i agree that we may be able to grow plants with such resistance to intersex that they are ,for all practical purposes, 100% female, even with our chemicals, i still strongly believe that those traits will be there, dormant in those plants, waiting for our next better way to bring them out. they will be "gone" to us, but they cannot be removed genetically
 
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