what are the guidelines when it comes to finding a MALE to breed with ?

[blackone]

I've been wondering about this myself ever since I had a special male with a very distinct orange peel aroma in an unknown outdoor strain I grew years back.
It would be cool if aroma could be directly selected fro on the male side (I'm an aroma fan myself - I find it just as important as yield and potency)

 

[sunnydog]

One of those negative traits is when the male wants to autoflower, spurt pollen regardless of light cycle, that's always a bummer when a male with alot of potential does that. Rez SD males are some of the best I've ever seen, also they are very well behaved and don't get out of hand in a long term veg like alot of males do.

DJ Short has alot to say about this subject if you can check it out.

Why is the autoflower male bad?
Have an auto flower male Stuporsonic and was thinking of making some early finishers.
Is this not a good idea??

 

[sunnydog]

Anybody?

 

[marijuanamat]

If your looking to develope a early outdoor strain for the rougher regions of the world then a auto-flowering male could be what your looking for but for breeding indoors i don't see the point in using AF's.
I've found alot of males will auto-flower if there left to get root bound but they can easily be reverted back to veg after they've been transplanted to larger pots/fresh soil.

 

[sunnydog]

If your looking to develope a early outdoor strain for the rougher regions of the world then a auto-flowering male could be what your looking for but for breeding indoors i don't see the point in using AF's.
I've found alot of males will auto-flower if there left to get root bound but they can easily be reverted back to veg after they've been transplanted to larger pots/fresh soil.

Thanks Mat. Yeah, we are trying to make some seeds for next year outdoors.
Got some AF-ing mighty mite males, also.
The mm's are like dwarf plants. Tiny.

 

[almostoverit]

just the kinda post I've been looking for...So what would be the benefit of using multiple males when looking to do multi generation breeding? Rather than just using one male? Is it mainly just the added phenos? A wider genepool to select from?-wouldn't this prove more difficult in selection of the best male in the bunch? I have another question, but I'm not sure how to word it-something along the lines of isn't it necessary to use only 1 male to end up with a stable and consistent strain? Or am I wrong in that? Man I wish I could figure out how to word this-too much goin on in my head-lol

 

[alpinestar]

high resin
smokeable potency to the male
good growth
any color traits smells or anything you're particularly interested in

just try to pick the most resinous ones if you have a choice of males

also hollow stems are supposedly (i don't put too much stock into it though) indicative of plants that are more potent

 

[Londinium]

I have another question, but I'm not sure how to word it-something along the lines of isn't it necessary to use only 1 male to end up with a stable and consistent strain? Or am I wrong in that? Man I wish I could figure out how to word this-too much goin on in my head-lol

The breeding is whats important when it comes to stability not just using a single male...That bottlenecks the strains genetics which as was said earlier lessens the choice of future phenotypes in l8r gen's...amongst other things.
The best thing is to use a few males and females,or as many as u can deal with and to either just open-pollinate them(leave em in same growroom,shakey,shakey)then repeat process a few seasons culling runts and undesirables as you go.... Or to create a few seperate lines from diff M's and F's of same strain and then cross them to each other when stable(a few generations later). This gives you stability but with a greater genetic diversity both in hidden and obvious traits. So is best compromise for modern breeder if space is an issue.
Crossing a single M and F is valid as it makes great possible mums in the F1 to keep for cloning but only makes seeds of very limited genetic potential and possibly loses some traits forever if strain is rare.
Hope that helps Almostoverit.....JBo

 

[almostoverit]

it helps very much., TY

"Crossing a single M and F is valid as it makes great possible mums in the F1 to keep for cloning but only makes seeds of very limited genetic potential and possibly loses some traits forever if strain is rare"

So if I'm trying to pinpoint or work on solidifying a certain standout pheno, for whatever the standout may be, That would be a time to concentrate on a single male/female cross.-brings up another question, but not sure if this is the place-...If I did start with one male and one female, and I got a standout stank and potent female, would I work with that female to it's father,,,or work with that lady to one of the males form the same batch-and I guess this would be the time to use several males-or would I work with each male individually again to that standout female to see which male will give me the closest copy of that lady? Or...would I just go back to the original Male and female and just look to recreate that standout through this?
Makes sense to me if I am trying to preserve a strain that I would use several males to several females though-very much so. But I'm real interested in trying to makle something new, and then try to stabalize/solidfy her over the years-just going to take awhile to find which one and what direction I want to go-but hey-hopefully time is what I got...Thanks for the time, if I need to space and number my questions that's no problem, I tend to ramble, hopw I was't to confusing

 

[alpinestar]

it helps very much., TY

"Crossing a single M and F is valid as it makes great possible mums in the F1 to keep for cloning but only makes seeds of very limited genetic potential and possibly loses some traits forever if strain is rare"

So if I'm trying to pinpoint or work on solidifying a certain standout pheno, for whatever the standout may be, That would be a time to concentrate on a single male/female cross.-brings up another question, but not sure if this is the place-...If I did start with one male and one female, and I got a standout stank and potent female, would I work with that female to it's father,,,or work with that lady to one of the males form the same batch-and I guess this would be the time to use several males-or would I work with each male individually again to that standout female to see which male will give me the closest copy of that lady? Or...would I just go back to the original Male and female and just look to recreate that standout through this?
Makes sense to me if I am trying to preserve a strain that I would use several males to several females though-very much so. But I'm real interested in trying to makle something new, and then try to stabalize/solidfy her over the years-just going to take awhile to find which one and what direction I want to go-but hey-hopefully time is what I got...Thanks for the time, if I need to space and number my questions that's no problem, I tend to ramble, hopw I was't to confusing

youd find wahtever pheno female you wanted

then cross it to the "best" male

grow out seeds, cross the best male of that batch to the original mother

do it a few times and youll get something stable
this is backcrossing

or you could find two females that both have similar standout phenos then force one to pollinate the other.

or just cross the best pheno to itself
called selfing


...lots of options but id go with the fem1xfem2

 

[420247]

youd find wahtever pheno female you wanted

then cross it to the "best" male

grow out seeds, cross the best male of that batch to the original mother

do it a few times and youll get something stable
this is backcrossing

Hmmm.... I thought if you’re going to backcross a strain/cultivar/whatever you'd want to outcross it first, and then start your backcrossing??? ie Strain A X Strain B then backcross the selected seed of A and B to the parent with the traits you’re after.

Like breeder steve and Sweet Tooth #3, BB X SPG; plus SPG X (BB X SPG); plus SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG); and again SPG X (SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG)= Sweet Tooth #3

or you could find two females that both have similar standout phenos then force one to pollinate the other.

or just cross the best pheno to itself
called selfing


...lots of options but id go with the fem1xfem2

I have to say this, nothing against alpinestar, I'm sure alpinestar knows this but I have to say it...

This is not breeding for the future, if your just after seeds as an end product, go for it.

Unless you have a fairly true breeding strain, these selfed seeds will be highly unstable, basically an adventure mix.

The easy way out is not always what you want

 

[almostoverit]

"Hmmm.... I thought if you’re going to backcross a strain/cultivar/whatever you'd want to outcross it first, and then start your backcrossing??? ie Strain A X Strain B then backcross the selected seed of A and B to the parent with the traits you’re after"

Sooo...(and sorry for changing the subject on the thread a bit, might be able to find this by reading but here goes)...going to walk though here abit bear with me...I have strain A and strain B. I cross them. I select a standout pheno. I (1) bring it back to her father? Or I (2) bring her into a new strain?
I then take the resulting seeds from either method 1 or 2, and take her into what, her grandfather-original strain either A or B, whichever was them male...If I choose method 1, what do I do with what is now my third gen? Take her back into still the original male? Or am I know bringing her into a male from the same seed batch, in a way her brother? Now I'm guessing in this method I would continuosly...6,7,8,15 times take the resulting seeds back into the orginal father?
Now say I used method B...with the resulting seeds, which would be my original cross being bred into a new strain-I am assuming this would be another strain that I would want to bring in wanted genes, but nothing to extreme as to really through a monkey wrench in the mix, probably nothing too dominant, and yet also a source of new genes to avoid to heavily an inbred line(kinda like the sounds of tat..) but anyways...smoke smoke....I would guess I now take these resulting seeds back into my original male. then do I take those seeds back into the let's call it strain C male? and now continue to satgger the males generation by generation? Or would I only want to bring in male of strain C into the mix that first time and only the first time-kinda just to change it up a bit and get the genes in and that's the end of that???
End goal in mind is to end up with a strain that is solid enogh for me to take 20-30 seeds, and breed the resulting plants amongst themselves and have a true representation of the strain-a solid melting of the goods and over taking of the bads-I undertand this could take years and years and years-but all we have is time right???

ANd if I need to space and number my questions please le tme knows

 

[almostoverit]

"Like breeder steve and Sweet Tooth #3, BB X SPG; plus SPG X (BB X SPG); plus SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG); and again SPG X (SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG)= Sweet Tooth #3"

i was confused my bad

 

[420247]

"Like breeder steve and Sweet Tooth #3, BB X SPG; plus SPG X (BB X SPG); plus SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG); and again SPG X (SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG)= Sweet Tooth #3"

As I was typing I was thinking I needed to look at this, might have answered my question,,, wait actually(2-3 minutes later know) I'm not as clear as I thought I was-where is the new genetic? Oh wait again(sudden thought) Did we at some point think we were talking a female to female cross? Thought this was a chose a mlae thread-LOL, definetly talking about real breeding, not feminized hit and miss hopefull we get lucky projects(no offense anyone out there-I have seen some nutty things result from an S1, I just don't know if I see the point?? or potential(better word??) in using an S1 in a real breeding prgram, too many variants, too unstable, ttoo prone to hermie, blah blah blah)
So when it was mentioned about bringing in new strain/genetics, I took it as meaning a third strain, and a second male being that third strain? I am now thinking it was just ment to bring in a male period for breeding? Looking the above quote, I don't notice a third strain, but I do see the answer to my question I think in the constantly crossing back to the original male----or is it only to A male of the original strain-or should it always be the same standout male that we have selected through the means presented in this thread(found a way to tie the thread back in YEA)

Heh now your trying to confuse me LOL

SPG=Sweet Pink Grapefruit female

BB=Blueberry male

Sweet Tooth= BB X SPG

Take the best male from seed that represents the traits your looking for, now that is (BB X SPG) and pollinate a clone of the original SPG mother

Sweet Tooth #1= SPG X (BB X SPG)

Again, find your best male SPG X (BB X SPG) from seed that represents the traits your looking for and backcross to a clone of the original SPG mother

Sweet Tooth #2= SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG)

Again, find your best male SPG X (SPG X (BB X SPG) from seed that represents the traits your looking for and backcross to a clone of the original SPG mother

And now we have Sweet Tooth #3 do it again and you have SWT #4

It can also be done the other way around, backcrossing to a male rather than a female...

 

[almostoverit]

"Heh now your trying to confuse me LOL "

5:16 AM, sure you're not confusing yourself, LOL,j/k...I was confused is what it was...I didn't realize we somehow went on to the femalexfemale polination, so when someone brought up new genetics-I assumed it was a 3rd strain involved, LOL, not realizing we were just going back to the basics in suggesting the obvious in using a second strain-if it makes sense-I thought this second strain was to be the third---oh wells, clear now...

I have a question with what you mentioned, seemed to me you suggest using the new males you create, rather than using the original male you used??? So say you do the example given...wait, just read it agin, there we go...so you take yourMale A and Female A, cross them, you have "new strain"...you take "new strain" to its father...and then take those results again into male A? and do this 3-4 times---at which point do you begin working with the males you created???

 

[Mountain_Monkey]

Has anyone here ever heard of breeding programs using 500-1000plants from which to select desirable parent plants, in recent years anyway? I too have been pondering the question of this thread for awhile now and asking questions here and there but without sufficient plant numbers to work with how is it that anyone can really answer the question with any authority? I understand certain people have obviously found exceptional males with which to breed hence some of the strains available today but it seems that more and more the exceptional smoke is originating from clone only strains which have been Bx'd.I have tried finding information on how the Afghans,Morrocans etc. selected males for their hash plantations but its proving very hard to get specifics... sorry if I've taken this thread on an unwanted sidestep...

 

[almostoverit]

Has anyone here ever heard of breeding programs using 500-1000plants from which to select desirable parent plants, in recent years anyway? I too have been pondering the question of this thread for awhile now and asking questions here and there but without sufficient plant numbers to work with how is it that anyone can really answer the question with any authority? I understand certain people have obviously found exceptional males with which to breed hence some of the strains available today but it seems that more and more the exceptional smoke is originating from clone only strains which have been Bx'd.I have tried finding information on how the Afghans,Morrocans etc. selected males for their hash plantations but its proving very hard to get specifics... sorry if I've taken this thread on an unwanted sidestep...

didn't they mostly just flat select for the most resin-y plants in the bunch??? I'm real curious if there's any "real" breeding programs going now too???

 

[fjällhöga]

Heja everyone

try to find a male , which fits your needs in case of resin? , phenotype? , stature , yield , etc for sure you should do some test crosses with this male , to see which traits will be passed on by the male

you should take notes if there is more than one male in your garden

resin on males giving one a higher probability for making resiny offspring , but it has to be tested and prooven , no matter if its expressing resin or not !

Mountain High Haze



good growing

Fj

 

[Bass Akwards]

A few notes ...

A few notes ...

Back in the day, Vic High published a short guide to stabilizing a cross.

It was his simplified version of RRS, and used multiple males. It's certain to be archived in several places online. Search under BCGA.

It's all well and good to use one male that displays trichomes, but they're few and far between. It's much simpler, and better breeding practice, to eliminate several males from a population, and use several others, than to pick out just one of them to use as a pollen source.

Here's my suggested standard for Male Inclusion: Go for the middle.

In a population of 30 seeds, without special attention, half of them usually turn out male. Several online commentators have stated that the first few males, the ones that are the earliest, fastest growers, have a genetic leaning towards hemp. Others have pointed out that the last males to show their sex have a propensity towards recessive traits.

If both of those notions are true, it's an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Out of 15 males, eliminate the first and last few plants to grow sacks, and use the pollen of the four or five best looking, smelling, and most vigorous plants in the middle of the pack.

 

[rule35sub1]

Wouldn't recessive genes be best for stabalizing??